Nicola Sturgeon - whither the SNP

Is Sturgeon's time as First Minister of Scotland coming to an end

  • Yes - she is dooomed

    Votes: 185 48.7%
  • No - this is just a storm in a tea cup

    Votes: 36 9.5%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 48 12.6%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 111 29.2%

  • Total voters
    380
Any further referendum should require the following:

The devolved Scottish Government to set out their timetable
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their terms
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their clear aims and objectives
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future monetary policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future fiscal policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future social policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Foreign policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Defence policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out the intended organization of a Sovereign Scottish Government
And............the revised timetable,

ETA Why? Because the people of Scotland deserve to know what, precisely, they are being asked to approve. And the people of the rest of the UK deserve to know what, precisely, any future Scottish government expect from them.

This information will then determine whether the rest of the UK ought to have a say in the matter.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Any further referendum should require the following:

The devolved Scottish Government to set out their timetable
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their terms
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their clear aims and objectives
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future monetary policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future fiscal policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future social policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Foreign policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Defence policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out the intended organization of a Sovereign Scottish Government
And............the revised timetable,

ETA Why? Because the people of Scotland deserve to know what, precisely, they are being asked to approve. And the people of the rest of the UK deserve to know what, precisely, any future Scottish government expect from them.

This information will then determine whether the rest of the UK ought to have a say in the matter.

However that is on the assumption that the devolved government would be the one in power after any such referendum.

Just as Brexit learned from IndyRef, so IndyRef2 will have learned from Brexit.

By that I mean the initial famous Yes white paper left far too many inponderables to be debated over and the concept of Project Fear introduced. By Brexit, it was merely on very broad "take back control" with absolutely no explanation of any details. Both sides campaigning more on the dismerits of the opposition than their own merits
 
Any further referendum should require the following:

The devolved Scottish Government to set out their timetable
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their terms
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their clear aims and objectives
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future monetary policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future fiscal policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future social policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Foreign policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Defence policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out the intended organization of a Sovereign Scottish Government
And............the revised timetable,

ETA Why? Because the people of Scotland deserve to know what, precisely, they are being asked to approve. And the people of the rest of the UK deserve to know what, precisely, any future Scottish government expect from them.

This information will then determine whether the rest of the UK ought to have a say in the matter.

That will never happen. The SNP function by providing an emotional bypass around sensible debate.
 
However that is on the assumption that the devolved government would be the one in power after any such referendum.

Just as Brexit learned from IndyRef, so IndyRef2 will have learned from Brexit.

By that I mean the initial famous Yes white paper left far too many inponderables to be debated over and the concept of Project Fear introduced. By Brexit, it was merely on very broad "take back control" with absolutely no explanation of any details. Both sides campaigning more on the dismerits of the opposition than their own merits
I doubt the result of a referendum on the Union would immediately alter the nature of either the devolved assembly or the national government, though I would accept that depending on the strengths and weakness of yes/no in each camp, there could be a populist push for immediate change in either institution.

You are right too about the imponderables. I would think that if it took the better part of three years to partially resolved the breakdown of a 50 year old treaty, it is likely to take a lot longer to disassemble one that has lasted 315 years - depending on whether and how a UK wide input would go. At one extreme it could be UK border control construction beginning the next day, or, more likely, the negotiations plus planning and prep continuing for about half a century. In short, the people who need to get their act together are the 10-20 year-olds and their younger siblings. A couple of special schools should fix the matter to the benefit of who has the foresight.
 
However that is on the assumption that the devolved government would be the one in power after any such referendum.

Just as Brexit learned from IndyRef, so IndyRef2 will have learned from Brexit.

By that I mean the initial famous Yes white paper left far too many inponderables to be debated over and the concept of Project Fear introduced. By Brexit, it was merely on very broad "take back control" with absolutely no explanation of any details. Both sides campaigning more on the dismerits of the opposition than their own merits

Make them put up or shut up and make it a UK wide referendum

You can bet it would be the SNP crying for it not to happen, I can't think they can imagine anything worse than actually getting independence, they'd have nowhere to hide then
 
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Why should England continue to feed the hand that bites us?

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your comment - Remember, it is not all the people of Scotland who feel that way.

A far better way of putting it would be to tell people to have a long, hard look at the performance of Fatty Blackford in Westminster and say '' This is why we want you gone ''

98% of Politicians in the UK are a joke IMO - Some are beyond a joke and should be euthanised. Especially those that hide behind the '' It's all Westminster's / Tories fault ''
 
Any further referendum should require the following:

The devolved Scottish Government to set out their timetable
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their terms
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their clear aims and objectives
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future monetary policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future fiscal policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future social policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Foreign policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out their future Defence policy
The devolved Scottish Government to set out the intended organization of a Sovereign Scottish Government
And............the revised timetable,

ETA Why? Because the people of Scotland deserve to know what, precisely, they are being asked to approve. And the people of the rest of the UK deserve to know what, precisely, any future Scottish government expect from them.

This information will then determine whether the rest of the UK ought to have a say in the matter.

:D :D :D

You're a funny guy

For about 80 years The SNP have been trumpeting about a Scottish Written Constitution - If they haven't managed to produce that in 80 years, not much chance of the above being produced before 3022
 

Chef

LE
Make them put up or shut up and make it a UK wide referendum

You can bet it would be the SNP crying for it not to happen, I can't think they can imagine anything worse than actually getting independence, they'd have nowhere to hide then
'Things that people say they want but not really' An occasional
series:

1. The truth about Madeline McCann.
2. Scottish independence.
 

syrup

LE
I don't see how breaking away from the union and signing back up with Europe and handing your powers over to Brussels is Independence

There has been much debate about what currency they will use when the EU has made it clear that any new country will have to adopt the Euro.

President Sturgeon seems to under the impression that She will breeze back into Brussels to sit at the chair previously occupied by the whole of the UK and she will be part of the team calling the shots

I'm very much of the opinion that Scotland will be sitting at the back with Malta and Cyprus and that elements within the E.U. will simply welcome Scotland back to continue it's border disputes with the rest of the UK as part of us annoying them with Brexit.

Whatever it is she's proposing doesn't seem like independence to me it simply seems to want to get rid of the English
 
I don't see how breaking away from the union and signing back up with Europe and handing your powers over to Brussels is Independence

There has been much debate about what currency they will use when the EU has made it clear that any new country will have to adopt the Euro.

President Sturgeon seems to under the impression that She will breeze back into Brussels to sit at the chair previously occupied by the whole of the UK and she will be part of the team calling the shots

I'm very much of the opinion that Scotland will be sitting at the back with Malta and Cyprus and that elements within the E.U. will simply welcome Scotland back to continue it's border disputes with the rest of the UK as part of us annoying them with Brexit.

Whatever it is she's proposing doesn't seem like independence to me it simply seems to want to get rid of the bastard English
Fixed foc
 
:D :D :D

You're a funny guy

For about 80 years The SNP have been trumpeting about a Scottish Written Constitution - If they haven't managed to produce that in 80 years, not much chance of the above being produced before 3022
Even if we were counting on that, all I am suggesting is a formal outline business plan, not dissimilar to what would be required by a bank for a new business loan. And these numpties are proposing an entirely new nation!

As for the southern partner in this Union, the idea that things are won on the playing fields of Eaton is long past its shelf life. These numpties should be sent back to their ancestral homes and replaced by people who actually know something about work.

Are we so arrogant that in the face of unprecedented knife crime and murder in London, increasingly more sophisticated organized crime and fear among womenfolk walking alone at night, some how spare capacity has been found within the Met to investigate the rights and wrongs of the PM having a fecking birthday cake.......the Russians must be sh1tting them selves.
 

Diogenes' limp

War Hero
Not what I asked, why are the people in Scotland just letting it happen? If you are that outraged, do something, instead of expecting us to just carry on giving you free money. As I have said before, if the Independence Vote had been UK wide it probably would have ended with Scotland wanting to stay and R'UK saying on your bike.
Dark o’clock in a safe-house basement up-town Bridge of Allan. (noise of steam iron off)
Malcolm Tucker type wearing Campbell tartan sports jacket over open neck shirt, plaid trews and tasselled brogues, to a small group clustered close.

Right - Blackford’s going really well, the constant whinging drone is setting teeth on edge in Westmonster, but it isn’t travelling. The Barnett formula resentment tactic is rolling out, but it’s not enough, we need to reach the English, get under their skin, stir up hatred and resentment en masse, so they lose all perspective and shout for us to be thrown out. Take: “How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child” and build from there.

Ideas, Suggestions?

We should entice large numbers of Sassenachs across the border where we can control the narrative.

Doesn’t need to be large - we need to influence English influencers with a shock wave and let it spread.

OK, how do we draw them in?

Curling? - idiot - too niche and that’s mostly Canadians who smear tree juice on their bacon.

North Coast 500? Too seasonal, too individual, it’s about the beauty of the place so they’ll see the value of it and anyway the teuchters have suddenly woken up to the money making opportunities.

Football? Better, large crowds, tribalism writ large and a good sectarian base too, lots of singing, but the supporters are used to it and come for the face slashing conflict and Scotland always lose so it lacks shock value.

Rugby then - civilised thuggery? Mmm, flag pole hoist, let's have a look. It’s still folk pursuing a fix of proxy violence and the feeling of belonging to a tribe at war, but more refined than the footy crowd, with rules of conduct to keep their innate violence from getting too out of hand. A long history of sportsmanship and hospitality towards visiting teams, so expectations will be wide open to shock disruption. Ideal target.

OK Rugby it is - method? Simple - Trainspotting?

Gather a small hand picked coterie of Rentons, feed them spice and free entry tickets to Scotland v England at Murrayfield for 100, tell both polis to keep their eyes closed, cry havoc and let the dogs of Douglas Murray’s madness of crowds fly loose.

Six months later, same scene. (plywood panel covers window. No steam iron heard)

Peter Malcolm speaks: The strategy is working, influential contributors on social media sites and forums are fomenting an escalating ‘hate the Jocks and throw them out’ fest. (Power point slide)

KPI 1: Ceasing to differentiate between those loyal to the UK and those loyal to our separatist Government. Measured by the appearance of ‘you’ in the accusative sense to encompass any Scot-Located contributor to the debate, regardless of their actual standpoint, currently = 78.6%.

KPI 2: All persons designated as ‘you!’ (see KPI 1) have equal culpability as traitors to the Crown and the Union through guilt by association. = 42.4% penetration.

KPI 3: Belief established that all of Scotland cast votes and all voted SNP. As result there are not 65 non SNP Members sitting at Holyrood, 65 isn’t 50.4 % of 129, all of which proves all Scots are anti-English = 34%

KPI 4: Establishing that there never was a reason for the Barnett formula - ever, ever, and that the SNP definitely don’t subvert it to political ends but if they did it would have the unqualified support of every one who lives in Scotland because they are all grasping parasites who vote SNP. (postal vote of course, those couches won’t sag by themselves you know) . = > 72%

And all from some spice and a 100 complimentary tickets to Murrayfield. Well done team!

Right, how can we make Adele’s meltdown into a Westmonster crime against Scotland - anyone?
 

Dredd

LE
Why should England continue to feed the hand that bites us? People are sick of her bile being spewed at us, while she takes money. I won't be going to Murrayfield again, after the shit, I and the rest of the party got from so-called "fans" at the last game up there. It wasn't banter, it was ugly racist abuse. Something I never thought I'd see tolerated at a Rugby ground anywhere.

That is actually very disappointing to hear. They have tarnished one of the glorious things that actually made rugby better than football - the fans did not resort to petty tribalism and could mix freely in the grounds, even at International level. But like all precious things of that nature, once it is lost it will be incredibly hard, if not impossible, to regain and rebuild. Like trust.

These clowns cannot and will not see that the bile they spout is creating tremendous damage to our reputation and we are a country in a very real and unnecessary self-inflicted pain. Whatever they think they are going to gain from this, it will never be worth it.

It is bordering on humiliation now.
 

Dredd

LE
And that is the exact reason England will vote for Scottish Independence.

No matter how it's presented by the SNP that's what felt down south
May daughter got an I Pad for Christmas bought and paid for in England by me

Her Cousins in Scotland get one for free dished out by the SNP

Yeah, but does your daughter have one that works and does the stuff she wants and needs it to do, or is it just a fancy table ornament?

You get what you pay for.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
That is actually very disappointing to hear. They have tarnished one of the glorious things that actually made rugby better than football - the fans did not resort to petty tribalism and could mix freely in the grounds, even at International level. But like all precious things of that nature, once it is lost it will be incredibly hard, if not impossible, to regain and rebuild. Like trust.

These clowns cannot and will not see that the bile they spout is creating tremendous damage to our reputation and we are a country in a very real and unnecessary self-inflicted pain. Whatever they think they are going to gain from this, it will never be worth it.

It is bordering on humiliation now.
I couldn't agree more. Rugby used to be the one thing that was above that sort of crap.
 
Burns Night inappropriate?

Scottish female poets want Robert Burns to be regarded as 'an abusive misogynist'

A group of female poets who studied Robert Burns have urged for the Bard to be regarded as a misogynist - saying his abusive entitlement is perpetuated today.

Scottish poets want Robert Burns to be regarded as 'an abusive misogynist'

Robert Burns: Backlash over Scottish Poetry Library-commissioned 'trashing' of legacy

Backlash over Scottish Poetry Library-commissioned 'trashing' of Burns' legacy

Given the Nats fervour for finding offence, surely they will be compelled to follow this up?

pc.gif
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Why should England continue to feed the hand that bites us? People are sick of her bile being spewed at us, while she takes money. I won't be going to Murrayfield again, after the shit, I and the rest of the party got from so-called "fans" at the last game up there. It wasn't banter, it was ugly racist abuse. Something I never thought I'd see tolerated at a Rugby ground anywhere.
Preaching to the converted here, Murrayfield 2020, wife's first England away game at rugby, something she'd taken to in the time she's been with me, never wants to go to Murrayfield again.
 
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