Nicola Sturgeon - whither the SNP

Is Sturgeon's time as First Minister of Scotland coming to an end

  • Yes - she is dooomed

    Votes: 157 48.0%
  • No - this is just a storm in a tea cup

    Votes: 31 9.5%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 45 13.8%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 94 28.7%

  • Total voters
    327
Read an article some time ago by a Canadian political scientist who had been involved with the referendum for the secession of Quebec from the Canadian Union. He had no axe to grind, but commenting on the Scotland situation, he said that such momentous changes should not be undertaken on a simple majority basis. He suggested that it needed to be 60% in favour of change, otherwise it would be very hard for the winners to carry the losers along with them. The article went into quite a bit of detail, most of which I cant now remember.

I know the SNP would be again it, but a 60% majority in an independence referendum would put the matter beyond doubt, and would endow Sturgeon with all the authority she needed, if she won it.

Let's face it, we are part way out of the EU based on a 48-52 split, and it was hard to make that stick, if the result had been 60-40 to leave, we'd have heard a lot less about second votes and so on and might have been 'out' sooner.

I would be against it. How can 60% - 1 of people be ignored because 40% + 1 wanted something?

If the EU referendum had been run along those lines and the results we 60% leave, remain would have complained that it was so close to 59.9999% (which would mean we stay in) that there should be a second referendum.
 
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Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer

giatttt

War Hero
That wouldn't take long.

  • The current population of Liechtenstein is 38,222 as of Wednesday, May 12, 2021, based on the latest United Nations estimates.
  • The current population of Vatican City is 800 based on projections of the latest United Nations data. The UN estimates the July 1, 2021 population at 800.
Both heavily involved in very profitable financial engineering, plus the Vatican gets a skim off the global catholic church.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
Possibly because that utopia's a figment of your imagination and people were voting on the basis of their everyday experiences?
Like hospitals that cannot open, ferries that cannot sail, bridges that cannot bridge, children that cannot read and write, addicts that cannot get treatment?
Or like crooked businesses propped up with uk taxpayers' money?

Utopia Venezuela style.
 
Why wouldn't they, since the Greens are also committed to it?

Are you being provocatively obtuse or is your view so blinkered?

The Greens may support the SNP on the matter of independence but their demands of the SNP may be to unpalatable for the SNP.

Their support (or not) of the SNP budgets will give an answer to that question.
 
In the 2019 general election, roughly around 32% of registered voters wanted the policies of a Conservative government enough to vote for them. The famed 52% for Brexit constituted around 37.5% of registered voters in 2016. I guess that must mean no mandate either? What a to-do!

Hang on, I've just found out that whoever wins under the system everyone agreed to beforehand has a mandate to carry out their manifesto and any other promises they made. What a turn up for the books, eh?


Spotted your mistake yet?

When did everyone agree last weeks Scottish election was giving a mandate for an independence referendum?
The SNP may have announced is as such but that is nothing remotely akin to an agreement is it?

Given that the SNP have made a manifesto promise to deliver something not within their gift and their claim to have that power is an outright lie your argument doesn't stack up really
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer

skeetstar

Old-Salt
I would be against it. How can 60% - 1 of people be ignored because 40% + 1 wanted something?

If the EU referendum had been run along those lines and the results we 60% leave, remain would have complained that it was so close to 59.9999% (which would mean we stay in) that there should be a second referendum.
Well you are right, any hurdle to jump over is arbitrary unless its 100% or 50% plus 1.
I was just mentioning what I had read in the article, and it made sense at the time of reading.
 
Spotted your mistake yet?

When did everyone agree last weeks Scottish election was giving a mandate for an independence referendum?
The SNP may have announced is as such but that is nothing remotely akin to an agreement is it?

Given that the SNP have made a manifesto promise to deliver something not within their gift and their claim to have that power is an outright lie your argument doesn't stack up really
To be fair the SNP have a good record of carrying out their manifesto promises

  1. Scrap the current council tax system
  2. Ban the sale of school playing fields
  3. Introduce smaller class sizes in P1 – P3
  4. Scrap the Students loans system
  5. Meet the two month waiting time for cancer treatment
  6. Improve educational performance in the PISA survey
  7. Reduce class sizes and improve pupil teacher ratios
  8. Maintain waiting time standards
Oh wait.......................... :grin:
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Self determination isn't defined in terms of national boundaries, it's defined in terms of peoples.

What one people choose for themselves has no relevance to another people's options.
Great, so that means we can secede from China! :)
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I've read it. And to say that it applies in the case of Scotland is a massive stretch.
All of what Smarts says is a massive stretch and used to go under the name of"Wishlist".
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
To be fair the SNP have a good record of carrying out their manifesto promises

  1. Scrap the current council tax system
  2. Ban the sale of school playing fields
  3. Introduce smaller class sizes in P1 – P3
  4. Scrap the Students loans system
  5. Meet the two month waiting time for cancer treatment
  6. Improve educational performance in the PISA survey
  7. Reduce class sizes and improve pupil teacher ratios
  8. Maintain waiting time standards
Oh wait.......................... :grin:
A nice list of incompetence, but not complete. Much more can be added :)
 

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