Nicola Sturgeon - whither the SNP

Is Sturgeon's time as First Minister of Scotland coming to an end

  • Yes - she is dooomed

    Votes: 155 49.1%
  • No - this is just a storm in a tea cup

    Votes: 30 9.5%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 43 13.6%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 88 27.8%

  • Total voters
    316

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Also means you can charged with the same crime twice, if new evidence arises.

In England and Wales (and NI?), the rules on double jeopardy mean that if you're found not guilty first time round then it's very hard to re-try for the same offence.
Not quite. While not identical the double jeopardy rules in E&W (since 2003) and Scotland (since 2011) are similar in that you still cannot normally be tried twice for the same offence, but in exceptional circumstances you now can be. The Scottish "not proven" verdict is not a factor in this.
 

DSJ

LE
Mortars or Artillery?

Maybe strapped to the front of Mons Meg.

Vereshchagin-Blowing_from_Guns_in_British_India.jpg


Tam Gun.jpg
A good job for Tam the Gun. Bits of dissident being scattered all over the gardens and Princes St.
 

It appears that the Scottish courts do take naming of the sexual assaults complainants seriously.

Indeed

Which makes the Crown Office decision to have the Salmond submission redacted all the more bizarre, as the submission does not name any of the complainants. In fact, it appears that the main redaction focused completely on Sturgeon, and the accusation of lying to Parliament.

Of Course, the Lord Advocate, a Sturgeon appointment, knew less about it than one of your discarded molars after being yanked out ;) ;)

Aye right.jpg
 

Old and Grumpy

Old-Salt
There are many aspects to this issue.

.......

The various bits of evidence that Salmond says are conclusive are far from that or Sturgeon would have had to go when first published in the Spectator.
I agree with the majority of what you have said other than "if it was conclusive she would have had to go" - I think it is too easy to underestimate the control she has - between herself and "him indoors" - over the vast majority of the party. Couple that with her obvious popularity among a significant proportion of the rank and file membership and the target electorate with her brass neck and you end up with someone who is immune to the normal standards we would expect of anyone - never mind leaders of political parties and of a government.

The drip feeding of all her alleged successes in dealing with with Coved means that many people believe that butter wouldn't melt in the crack of her arse. She is a phenomenally good politician - just a shame that she is so self centred that she uses her abilities to f**k over her colleagues and the nation as a whole for her own very narrowly focused ends.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Don't think she orchestrated it as such, the complainants were prompted by the me too movement. She may have tried to exploit it but doubt it was a coordinated effort.

There is no doubt that the SNP have not been held to account in Holyrood.

All the various SNP slips, trips and falls have been reported over the years. See Effie Deans list of failures, all had been covered in the media (except for the interdict) and been discussed in the Scottish Politics thread as they occurred.

What the SNP have been good at is getting the subject changed, perhaps they have been lucky in that between Brexit, UK and US politics that the news cycle is short.
I don't think they can prove she orchestrated it as such, but the optics are pretty damning. The inconsistencies in SNP ministers and party officials testimony to the Enquiry alone sketches a large dotted arrow at Sturgeon. When the collusion of the Crown Office to spare the FM's blushes are added into the pot, things look quite uncomfortable for her.
 
I agree with the majority of what you have said other than "if it was conclusive she would have had to go" - I think it is too easy to underestimate the control she has - between herself and "him indoors" - over the vast majority of the party. Couple that with her obvious popularity among a significant proportion of the rank and file membership and the target electorate with her brass neck and you end up with someone who is immune to the normal standards we would expect of anyone - never mind leaders of political parties and of a government.

The drip feeding of all her alleged successes in dealing with with Coved means that many people believe that butter wouldn't melt in the crack of her arse. She is a phenomenally good politician - just a shame that she is so self centred that she uses her abilities to f**k over her colleagues and the nation as a whole for her own very narrowly focused ends.
Is she really a phenomenally good politician or just lucky enough to have no real cohesive opposition?
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Given that they went against legal advice ( hence forking out for Salmonds legal costs ) it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they were advised to hand it the appropriate authority, and promptly ignored said advice. Re-writing procedures after the fact is not exactly a good look either. Which may, in part, explain the accusations of cover ups and orchestrating a campaign against Salmond.



A solution is no longer possible - The genie has now well and truly left the bottle and is not going back in.

There's a solution alright. The thing is, they've let it get away from their control.

Which is nice.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Article in the Speccy makes a good point:


"Henry Kissinger’s sardonic appraisal of the Iran-Iraq War is increasingly applicable to the war between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon: it is a shame they can’t both lose. Disinterested observers, however, are under no obligation to pick a team. It is wholly possible neither protagonist has offered a convincing version of events. Treating Salmond’s claims sceptically imposes no requirement to swallow Sturgeon’s and, indeed, vice versa."
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer

It appears that the Scottish courts do take naming of the sexual assaults complainants seriously.
Did I miss it, or was there no mention of these names in Mr. Salmond's submission, which was redacted by removing references to Ms. Sturgeon, not any complainants.
 

Old and Grumpy

Old-Salt
Article in the Speccy makes a good point:


"Henry Kissinger’s sardonic appraisal of the Iran-Iraq War is increasingly applicable to the war between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon: it is a shame they can’t both lose. Disinterested observers, however, are under no obligation to pick a team. It is wholly possible neither protagonist has offered a convincing version of events. Treating Salmond’s claims sceptically imposes no requirement to swallow Sturgeon’s and, indeed, vice versa."
They can both lose - because once everyone realises quite what a bunch of desperate intellectually challenged individuals they are and how fundamentally ridiculous their proposals for independence are we can only hope that they both do.
 

Rab_C

LE
Sturgeon was becoming very angry today in the Wee Hoose. Her only reply was the accusations will be dealt with at Committee when she finally appears.

Nicky is not dealing with mugs now though but with skilled and persistent politicians who are asking all the correct questions and not receiving any answers. Sturgeon's big 'out-down' to Ruthie was she is leaving parliament to the unelected House if Lords therefore has no right to talk about democracy. Very weak and becoming repetitive. Indeed we know when Ruthie has scored when St Nic deploys her HofL remarks.

Not a good performance from Nic and I expect this to become more bitter over the next few weeks.
And the sound bites have made it onto independent radio news, which is a first. It appears the press are starting to get their teeth into this one.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Did I miss it, or was there no mention of these names in Mr. Salmond's submission, which was redacted by removing references to Ms. Sturgeon, not any complainants.

Whilst no mention of names, allegedly however they can be worked out by cross reference and a little bit of local knowledge.

As I said, allegedly.

And given the hostility involved, any naming or attempt to, has been dealt with as a contempt of court
 
Whilst no mention of names, allegedly however they can be worked out by cross reference and a little bit of local knowledge.

As I said, allegedly.

And given the hostility involved, any naming or attempt to, has been dealt with as a contempt of court

Does Scotch law apply outside the county?
 
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