Nice to know that it isnt just us...

#1
#2
There was a thread yesterday about the USMC using the Ark Royal, and qualifying in ski jump take off and landings.

How long before the Government say "See! She's good for another forty years, and our biggest allies can use her too! Cancel the Carriers - we don't need them!"

Glad I'm finishing to be honest.
 
#3
Slightly O/T - but did you see in the German article that they now only do 6 months conscription? What is the point of that? I understand the rationale for linking the Army to the people in Germany, but 6 months is nonsensical, you can't do anything in that time and you don't learn enough to make it worthwhile. What a waste of cash!
 
#4
Shankley... reference USMC getting ski jump qualified, I know for a fact we have several FAA Aviators out in the USA getting cat 'n trap qualifications...
 
#5
jim30 said:
Slightly O/T - but did you see in the German article that they now only do 6 months conscription? What is the point of that? I understand the rationale for linking the Army to the people in Germany, but 6 months is nonsensical, you can't do anything in that time and you don't learn enough to make it worthwhile. What a waste of cash!
They can also opt out of military conscription and do the same time in community work, plus they can also voluntarily extend their time. Also the Bundeswehr also has Berufssoldaten or professional soldiers.
 
#6
Yeoman_dai said:
Shankley... reference USMC getting ski jump qualified, I know for a fact we have several FAA Aviators out in the USA getting cat 'n trap qualifications...
Has this been happening for a long time or a recent development?
 
#7
And here in the far east many countries are increasing their defence budgets. The balance of power is shifting slowly but surely. Of course this is a long way from UK and few people take notice (and the politicians hope and pray that no one will take notice), after all it isn't in our back yard. The pity is that the UK used to have a robust defence industry - and we still could have. However years of defence neglect have eroded our defence industry to the point that it is now a small and insignificant backwater. It used to be a real export sales winner. But since we now don't take our own defence seriously, how can we expect potential customers of defence equipments to take us seriously?

Now is the time to invest seriously in defence. We have pirates off Somalia. How long before we have to ask the UN or the EC for assistance with pirates off Penzance.
 
#8
Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
#9
Excellent sentiments.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#10
eodmatt said:
And here in the far east many countries are increasing their defence budgets. The balance of power is shifting slowly but surely. Of course this is a long way from UK and few people take notice (and the politicians hope and pray that no one will take notice), after all it isn't in our back yard. The pity is that the UK used to have a robust defence industry - and we still could have. However years of defence neglect have eroded our defence industry to the point that it is now a small and insignificant backwater. It used to be a real export sales winner. But since we now don't take our own defence seriously, how can we expect potential customers of defence equipments to take us seriously?

Now is the time to invest seriously in defence. We have pirates off Somalia. How long before we have to ask the UN or the EC for assistance with pirates off Penzance.
Are you suggesting that we should be peddling weapons of death and torture to the benighted masses of Asia and Africa? You may be guilty of a thought crime.
 
T

trowel

Guest
#12
eodmatt said:
And here in the far east many countries are increasing their defence budgets. The balance of power is shifting slowly but surely. Of course this is a long way from UK and few people take notice (and the politicians hope and pray that no one will take notice), after all it isn't in our back yard. The pity is that the UK used to have a robust defence industry - and we still could have. However years of defence neglect have eroded our defence industry to the point that it is now a small and insignificant backwater. It used to be a real export sales winner. But since we now don't take our own defence seriously, how can we expect potential customers of defence equipments to take us seriously?

Now is the time to invest seriously in defence. We have pirates off Somalia. How long before we have to ask the UN or the EC for assistance with pirates off Penzance.
"Many a true word spoken in jest" as they say. Slaving raids by Barbary pirates were commonplace in southern parts of the British Isles.
 
#13
fantassin said:
Not to mention NATO which already thinking of shedding another 30% body fat in the coming years, including some JFCs and CCs.....
One or other of the CCs Air would be a plump target, and I know which one I would plump for disbanding.

As for the Bundeswehr conscripts; one of the guys I work with reckons the only people who do it now are those are either too stupid or too lazy to get out of it. Having met quite a few, he has a point.
 
#14
The Brits are moving/have already moved out of Izmir and Madrid...and JFC Lisbon is a prime target if one JFC was to go...and since JFC Lisbon commander is French and the push to slim down NATO is particularly strong in France, it would be hard for the French to oppose the closure of JFC Lisbon for example...
 
#15
It may seem that there are too many CCs and JFCs (or even JCs now) than are necessary, but there is a distinct COC pyramid to be supported which is easily undermined if a sabre is taken to the structure. Additionally, the age old analogy that you don't disband the fire-brigade just because there hasn't been a fire for a few weeks, still applies.

In coffee-time conversations, I have heard the idea floated that ACT could disappear as a separate command, and be incorporated under ACO as a 3* entity just like NCSA. (Hell of a span of command for SACEUR though). Agency merger must also be on the cards, but again, the PE review has only just been coaxed to conclusion and nobody wants to re-open that can of worms in a hurry.

The NATO focus has to remain on strategic and operational commitments and capabilities. As nations slash their domestic defence budgets there is a growing need for a central clearing-house for force-packaging, which NATO is best placed to provide, among its other strategic obligations. Obviously the UN has proven too cumbersome to carry out this role effectively and there is no-one else.

Of course in the end it will come down to budgets. The new PE has been approved, with a few caveats, and that tortuous process is not one that most governments will be looking to revisit in the next couple of years. I suppose there is the alternative that nations will gap posts and/or defer funding for full occupancy of slots.

(Please forgive the vagueness of this post but I have to be careful not to write anything that isn't in the public domain. I don't want to be one of the first cuts do I?)
 
#18
eodmatt said:
And here in the far east many countries are increasing their defence budgets.
Now is the time to invest seriously in defence. We have pirates off Somalia. How long before we have to ask the UN or the EC for assistance with pirates off Penzance.
Not quite true - keep some sense of preportion:

Iran - $6,089,000,000
Turkey -$11,663,000,000
Saudi - $33,136,000,000

These countries can spend all they like, but they are still remarkable dependent upon the West to sell them everything. Their defence spending is rising - but so is the cost of the kit we sell them. We only need to look at the debates around Eurofighter and Astute to see that things cost more...

Despite the rhetoric, I find it highly unlikely that we would go to war to defend Israel. You seem to be suggesting that there will be some form of Middle Eastern invasion?

As for your second part; it is highly unlikely that this will happen. In any case I'm sure France and the US would come to our aid faster than they/we go to aid Somalia.
 
#19
SomersetMan said:
Key setting please!
Fair one!

In rough terms:

NATO Has 2 Strategic level commands; Allied Command Operations (ACO) commanded by Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) and Allied Command Transformation (ACT) Commanded by Supreme Allied Commander Transformation (SACT).

Under SACEUR are the regional Joint Force Commands (JFCs) each of which has 3 Component Commands (CCs) for land (CC Land), air (CC Air) and maritime (CC Mar). Each of the JFCs and CCs have regional and specific responsibilities.

ACT is responsible for all development, training and (Theoretically anyway) doctrine.

There are also a number of NATO agencies which span the commands with special roles. Allied Command Counter Intelligence (ACCI) and NATO CIS Services Agency (NCSA) to name just 2 of many.

Key settings end. Is that all clear now?

Baggy
 
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