NI, IRA & Brexit

#42
You could always try reading it.
I have - I have the original published version.

Rather than post snide diversions, quote those parts of the Belfast Agreement which Barnier et al assert relate to trade, customs and the border?

.
Here's an excellent article:
Proof the Remainer row over EU Customs Union is claptrap
...The EU has warned that Brexit talks could collapse entirely if agreement cannot be reached on a way to handle £3 billion of annual North/South trade
...
Felixstowe (one of many UK container ports) can smoothly handle £80 billion in trade from outside the (EU) customs union each year, is it really so hard for Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to cope with a mere £3 billion?...
NI/RoI border is a diversionary tactic May has swallowed to create a problem where none exists. £3Bn pa is chicken feed, if EU/RoI closed border it would have little impact.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#44
I have - I have the original published version.

Rather than post snide diversions, quote those parts of the Belfast Agreement which Barnier et al assert relate to trade, customs and the border?

.
Here's an excellent article:
Proof the Remainer row over EU Customs Union is claptrap


NI/RoI border is a diversionary tactic May has swallowed to create a problem where none exists. £3Bn pa is chicken feed, if EU/RoI closed border it would have little impact.

You’d think the Government would pay a lot more attention to the Mail and hand out relevant gongs and lordships for solving one of their most intractable problems.

They could call it the Dacre solution, but they probably won’t. Because it’s a stupid idea and they’re already attempting to get out of another stupid idea called Brexit.
 
#45
Oh joy.

This could have been an interesting debate on where things had got to and where they might post brexit with particular reference to h ow the authorities might counteract a re emergence of the threat of violence.

If someone were to ask the OP if the thread was going as expected he might well say sadly, yes.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#46
Oh joy.

This could have been an interesting debate on where things had got to and where they might post brexit with particular reference to h ow the authorities might counteract a re emergence of the threat of violence.

If someone were to ask the OP if the thread was going as expected he might well say sadly, yes.
It’s simple. It’s been done to death. There is no reason to return to violence. The social conditions which led to it in the sixties no longer exist.

The cycle of a generational wreck the place has been broken.

The young people have no interest in restarting it or carrying it on. They mix and match at gigs and clubs in towns.

Look at membership of the Orange order. And bands, one of the first big church parades the other Sunday. An entire district passed in less than ten minutes.

The Irish language is not a weapon of war it’s a cultural thing, and there’s very few places in the north where you could order a round in either Irish or Ulster Scots. People get laughed at for ‘cod’ Irish spellings of their names (see the latest Sinn Fein mp)

The dissidents will get mopped up by the police in the north. They’ll not operate in the south, they’ll get seriously dealt with.

The loyalists, just criminals and dealt with as such. Also riddled with informants. There’s a court case coming up which should be entertaining.
(And there’s another branch of the same crowd across the city, where the leader has said that if he gets lifted. Everyone’s going down with him. He’s still leader, to describe this particular lot as a force to be reckoned with would be over egging the pudding)

Who are the terrorists going to fight?
The border has nothing to do with a return to violence. It’s simply that can a British government be trusted to stick to an international agreement and how it looks to our future partners in the WTO.
 
#47
It’s simple. It’s been done to death. There is no reason to return to violence. The social conditions which led to it in the sixties no longer exist.

The cycle of a generational wreck the place has been broken.

The young people have no interest in restarting it or carrying it on. They mix and match at gigs and clubs in towns.

Look at membership of the Orange order. And bands, one of the first big church parades the other Sunday. An entire district passed in less than ten minutes.

The Irish language is not a weapon of war it’s a cultural thing, and there’s very few places in the north where you could order a round in either Irish or Ulster Scots. People get laughed at for ‘cod’ Irish spellings of their names (see the latest Sinn Fein mp)

The dissidents will get mopped up by the police in the north. They’ll not operate in the south, they’ll get seriously dealt with.

The loyalists, just criminals and dealt with as such. Also riddled with informants. There’s a court case coming up which should be entertaining.
(And there’s another branch of the same crowd across the city, where the leader has said that if he gets lifted. Everyone’s going down with him. He’s still leader, to describe this particular lot as a force to be reckoned with would be over egging the pudding)

Who are the terrorists going to fight?
The border has nothing to do with a return to violence. It’s simply that can a British government be trusted to stick to an international agreement and how it looks to our future partners in the WTO.
Great post. Close the thread.
 
#48
I have - I have the original published version.

Rather than post snide diversions, quote those parts of the Belfast Agreement which Barnier et al assert relate to trade, customs and the border?

.
Here's an excellent article:
Proof the Remainer row over EU Customs Union is claptrap


NI/RoI border is a diversionary tactic May has swallowed to create a problem where none exists. £3Bn pa is chicken feed, if EU/RoI closed border it would have little impact.
It’s £4 billion of NI exports go to RoI (15% of the total).

Sectoral Cross-border Trade - IntertradeIreland

Oh joy.

This could have been an interesting debate on where things had got to and where they might post brexit with particular reference to h ow the authorities might counteract a re emergence of the threat of violence.

If someone were to ask the OP if the thread was going as expected he might well say sadly, yes.

It’s simple. It’s been done to death. There is no reason to return to violence. The social conditions which led to it in the sixties no longer exist.

The cycle of a generational wreck the place has been broken.

The young people have no interest in restarting it or carrying it on. They mix and match at gigs and clubs in towns.

Look at membership of the Orange order. And bands, one of the first big church parades the other Sunday. An entire district passed in less than ten minutes.

The Irish language is not a weapon of war it’s a cultural thing, and there’s very few places in the north where you could order a round in either Irish or Ulster Scots. People get laughed at for ‘cod’ Irish spellings of their names (see the latest Sinn Fein mp)

The dissidents will get mopped up by the police in the north. They’ll not operate in the south, they’ll get seriously dealt with.

The loyalists, just criminals and dealt with as such. Also riddled with informants. There’s a court case coming up which should be entertaining.
(And there’s another branch of the same crowd across the city, where the leader has said that if he gets lifted. Everyone’s going down with him. He’s still leader, to describe this particular lot as a force to be reckoned with would be over egging the pudding)

Who are the terrorists going to fight?
The border has nothing to do with a return to violence. It’s simply that can a British government be trusted to stick to an international agreement and how it looks to our future partners in the WTO.
I don’t think there will be a major return to violence but....

The current under 25s have no idea of the Troubles. That’s a good thing but it is dangerous as well.

56% of the NI electorate voted remain you don’t think they are disenfranchised?

You don’t think people being represented solely by the DUP in Westminster and the collapse of Stormont feel disenfranchised ?

Remember the reason for the Civil Rights movement was people being disenfranchised
 
#50
'May has often been accused of sitting on the fence on Brexit, of failing to give a lead and ducking out of confrontations with either side in her split party. On this occasion, however, she broke that habit and gave Rees-Mogg a piece of her mind. According to several sources, she spelled out in no uncertain terms the serious problems and costs that would result from having to resort to World Trade Organisation rules, while also stressing the potentially grave security dangers that would follow if and when the Republic of Ireland had to reimpose border controls on the orders of the EU in order to preserve the integrity of the single market.
Q&AWhat is a hard Brexit?
Show

“It was the most amazing moment when the Rees-Mogg claptrap finally met cold reality,” said one Remain MP who attended. “She became animated in a way she doesn’t normally, she was completely engaged, not robotic at all. She was really concerned about the security issue and she showed she really meant every word she said.”


Oh look, the PM is worried about the potential security implications... Now who briefs her?
 
#51
Slab wasn't the only character exploiting land on both sides of the Border. Several large meat-packing concerns did exactly that and were busted several times for falsifying shipping records pertaining to live cattle exports, as well as packed meat. Also, an awful lot of farmers moaned constantly about the difficulties of farming on farms that straddled the border, yet they constantly involved themselves in smuggling or facilitated others to do so.
 
#53
I have - I have the original published version.

Rather than post snide diversions, quote those parts of the Belfast Agreement which Barnier et al assert relate to trade, customs and the border?

.
Here's an excellent article:
Proof the Remainer row over EU Customs Union is claptrap


NI/RoI border is a diversionary tactic May has swallowed to create a problem where none exists. £3Bn pa is chicken feed, if EU/RoI closed border it would have little impact.

Barnier et al don't need to assert that, nor have they.

If you have read the GFA and its annexes you will surely know that it is predicated on a shared EU membership, so the EU deal on trade, customs and the border are written into it. Shared membership is also the magic key of making the GFA work politically.

PMTM has made mutually incompatible promises to very different parties regarding the Irish Question and there is still no agreed UK position on the matter, never mind Irish or EU agreement on amending an internationally binding treaty.

I'm sure you'd agree this is not a good place to start on the search for the sunny uplands.
 
#54
You’d think the Government would pay a lot more attention to the Mail and hand out relevant gongs and lordships for solving one of their most intractable problems.

They could call it the Dacre solution, but they probably won’t. Because it’s a stupid idea and they’re already attempting to get out of another stupid idea called Brexit.
Once again, opinion not facts.

I assume you failed to find the evidence to support remainer & Barnier's assertions about Belfast Agreement.

Pitiful.
 
#55
It’s £4 billion of NI exports go to RoI (15% of the total).

Sectoral Cross-border Trade - IntertradeIreland






I don’t think there will be a major return to violence but....

The current under 25s have no idea of the Troubles. That’s a good thing but it is dangerous as well.

56% of the NI electorate voted remain you don’t think they are disenfranchised?

You don’t think people being represented solely by the DUP in Westminster and the collapse of Stormont feel disenfranchised ?

Remember the reason for the Civil Rights movement was people being disenfranchised
Not a problem. Throw a referendum for NI and leave them to it if it votes to sing:
Meh. Why can't we English have a referendum, hey?
 
#57
Meanwhile, back in the real world, the locals in NI are increasingly looking to favour reunification and staying in the EU rather than see a disrupted border. So it may well not matter at all what we think at all.

Brexit: Northern Ireland support to 'remain' in EU soars to 69% - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

What's that phrase again, we had to destroy the country in order to save it? Something like that. Amazingly enough, the "patriots" backing Brexit don't seem to see breaking the country up as a problem. Still, no doubt someone will be along with a stream of conciousness rant, fact free, laced with talking points put out by third parties whose motivations they are unwilling or incapable of addressing.
 
#59
Meanwhile, back in the real world, the locals in NI are increasingly looking to favour reunification and staying in the EU rather than see a disrupted border. So it may well not matter at all what we think at all.

Brexit: Northern Ireland support to 'remain' in EU soars to 69% - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

What's that phrase again, we had to destroy the country in order to save it? Something like that. Amazingly enough, the "patriots" backing Brexit don't seem to see breaking the country up as a problem. Still, no doubt someone will be along with a stream of conciousness rant, fact free, laced with talking points put out by third parties whose motivations they are unwilling or incapable of addressing.
Why would the reunification of Ireland be such a problem?

The self determination of those people is more important than maintaining a United Kingdom.

Besides which, we'd finally be rid of the millstone and the miserable wretches who inhabit the sh1thole.
 
#60
Why would the reunification of Ireland be such a problem?

The self determination of those people is more important than maintaining a United Kingdom.

Besides which, we'd finally be rid of the millstone and the miserable wretches who inhabit the sh1thole.
Claiming to be a patriot and causing the breakup of the country are, to my eyes, mutually exclusive. If Brexit had been sold as an english nationalist plot to breakup the UK then fair enough, but I don't remember any of that back in 2016.
 
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