NHS Mis-management

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by MikeMcc, Dec 13, 2006.

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  1. see this on BBC website and on the news this morning, I really can't believe that they are being so inept.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6172423.stm

    I thought the point of giving these management t*ssers so much was to bring in people that knew what the hell they were doing. If they are being so incompetent then perhaps thay should be losing their jobs rather than nurses and doctors. One of the authours of the report was saying that there were instances where trusts with budgets of >£100million didn't even have any financial officers!
     
  2. One of the ways that this target is met (certainly in Wiltshire) is by not unloading ambulances untill the patient is going to be seen, or be seen within the 4 hour waiting limit. so you have a fully crewed ambulance waiting outside a hospital just because failure to meet government targets incurrs penalties. If they don't meet their targets then then don't get extra cash that they need to help them meet the targets.......
     
  3. Or they get admitted to a fictional ward which to the casual observer looks like a corridor near casualty!
     
  4. Interesting, that.

    I have two friends who work for WYMAS and they have never suggested that such a thing happens.

    I wonder how Wiltshire NHS got several organisations to work so closely together.


    How shitty they must feel everytime someone dies because they are sat for hours waiting to unload their casualty
     
  5. The manipulation of targets in the NHS has got to such proportions that they are almost completely meaningless. Almost all waiting lists are manipulated so that you can only get on them if you can be seen within the target time.

    Many GPs will only give you an appointment if they can see you in three days as they are not supposed to make you wait more than three days to see you, but your waiting time only starts when you get the appointment, not the first time you phone to make said appointment.

    Peter
     
  6. As a First Responder I would get calls from Control (sorry Emergency Operations Centre as control is oficially a form of bullying) we would be told that we were the only crew available in the entire county, with time permitting control would give us a run down of where the other crews were and usually they were on a job or waiting to unload. Its better that a patient is looked after rather than left alone, but when the main reason is for government targets its shameful.

    Some ambulance trusts are now using First Resonders (in various forms) to bring the response times down, I was present at in Bath when LAS were looking at introducing a first responder scheme, the comment of "if it brings our response times down by 10% its worth it"
    The only problem they could see would be the initial start up costs for a small scale trial.
     
  7. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    This happens elsewhere, too. Except, apparently, in the Utopian world of New Labour, where Sven lives.

    Incidentally, WYMAS no longer exists, and has not for some time. Once his uninformed friends have worked out who their employer is, they could always look on Google, which will reward their efforts by showing that this practice certainly goes on.


    Another trick is the 'trolley wait' scam. To avoid being caught out under that particular target, some trusts have bought 'mobile beds' which, though they look exactly like trollies, are slightly wider than those defined in the govt target - so hours of waiting on them doesn't count.
     
  8. Then I must have been on the only waiting lists that aren't.

    Since 2005 I have been on

    Sleep Studies
    CPAP Issue
    CPAP Servicing
    3 seperate blood tests carried out at hospital
    Orthapedic operation (non emergency)

    The longest wait I had was for my sleep study - which was less than 3 months and my operation - two months-ish, the rest numbered within weeks.
     
  9. I would like to point out that I do not know of any patient who has had poor treatment because of this, or have suffered/died as a result. but then I don't know what happens to them after I had dealt with them and handed over to a 'proper' full time crew.
     
  10. Most managers in the NHS are ex-nurses who are keen to get out of the ward environment, there is no real management training in the NHS.

    The conservatives brought managers from industry into the NHS to shake it up by offering higher salaries for key posts, most left as they couldn't put up with the bureaucracy. Ex nurses moved up into their posts and the poor decision making continued.

    I believe a nationwide school of management run by industry should be set up for NHS and Council managers teaching good management techniques.

    But what do I know?
     
  11. There are always exceptions, but my last GP operated the 3 day scam, my wife has had the wait to get on the waiting list, and my mother had the 'persuaded' to leave the waiting list trick. My sister was a senior hospital pharmacist for 20 years but left because the quality of management and emphasis on avoiding any blame on managment.

    My mother nearly died in hospital because the target led ambulance service saw their targets more important than an old womans desire to die at home.

    Peter
     
  12. When I had my heart attack I lived in Medway NHS area. After being stabilised and put on monitoring, I was left on a trolley for about 8 hours. The actual treatment and attention was first class and I was just grateful that I was in a position to know where I was. It sounds bad, it could be better but it can be borne.
     
  13. So You don't know of any patients who have died whilst waiting for an ambulance to arrive - which had been hanging about AandE for more than four hours.

    By the way, I understand there is a new ambulance service in Wiltshire - is this new service still operating under the rules You describe
     
  14. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    You forget the other two main groups from which NHS management is recruited: commercial management failures and those promoted into management from NHS clerical jobs.

    The system is self-perpetuating. These people know of their own shortcomings, so ensure that no-one of ability is recruited since they would risk being revealed as incompetent. The NHS also seems unable to sack poor performers, bullies and the self-serving; instead they are moved sideways or upwards.

    I find it ironic to hear so many former nurses complaining, from management positions, of the shortage of nurses, oblivious to the fact that if nurses stuck to looking after patients there wouldn't be a shortage.

    Then there are all the nursing non-jobs - see the classifieds of any nursey journal for details.
     
  15. The new ambulance service in Wiltshire is an amalgamation of three counties. Having left the area as the changes were being made I couldnt comment on the current state of afairs. I do not blame the hospitals for massaging the figures, failure to reach the desired results means less cash, less cash means reduced services/job losses/poorer patient care. If a patient is in an ambulance at least they have medical care on hand, rather than being put into a mobile bed.

    I am under the impression that if the Fire Service and Police are unable to reach certain targets they qualify for further funding to help them get there, with the NHS its the other way round. That doesn't make sense to me.