NHS in £25Bn overspend!

#3
WhiteHorse said:
I can't believe it
I can.

Working at an MDHU I see the waste in the NHS on a daily basis. The quality of management is often poor, and there are huge empires, notably within nursing. Many nurses are not actually involved in looking after patients, mostly contributing to the proliferation of narrow, PC jobs in 'facilitating', 'diversity' and so on. There is a culture of shoulder sloping at all levels.

The IT system in my hospital isn't bad; or at least it would be if it was used properly. There is a marked reluctance amongst some staff (nurses again), to actually use the system, so that we often miss military patients because the ward staff can't be arrsed to select 'mil' from a drop-down menu; or we think there's a problem because someone hasn't been discharged, only to find that the staff didn't click to update the system. And so it goes on. The fundamental mistake with MDHUs was that the military should run the hospitals with the NHS as the client. Oh well, nice to dream....
 
#4
Is there a list of where MDHU's exisit, I've been admitted to a few A&E's (in Uniform)in the past and don't recall seeing Mil Staff?
 
#5
This has been well and truly porked.If you want to see where all the best bloated running dogs and usual suspects are dining large on taxpayers this year ,look straight at this contract.

It's incredible , the smoke and mirrors machine is glowing red hot in the dark and NHS staff are furious ,especially as a lot of the expensive add-ons ,could be solved by COTS procurement

BT are taking 3 Billion for upgrades to systems - Will you be installing VoIP?
I see Accenture are involved - So that will mean offshore development then?
Lovely ,lovely lovely

Meanwhile.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ma...nuId=242&sSheet=/money/2004/10/12/ixcity.html

New NHS e-mail system crashes
By Edmund Conway (Filed: 12/10/2004)


Cable & Wireless has been forced to postpone the launch of its £90m National Health Service e-mail system after its computers crashed on debut, leaving hospital staff around the country without access to their mailboxes.

The NHS has temporarily reinstated C&W's predecessor, EDS, as the systems provider.

The move is doubly embarrassing for the Department of Health, which prematurely cancelled its contract with EDS earlier this year and, together with C&W, had to pay £9m in compensation to the Texan IT company. C&W was due to take over the system last Friday but its systems failed to start up properly, leaving the entire network offline for more than an hour. Users only regained access to e-mail after the NHS decided to switch back to the old EDS system
We can't spend money on additional Doctors and Nurses ,but we can waste money on grandiose IT schemes :evil:

I know there are NHS professionals out there in Arrseland ,including one or two in senior positions,what say you?
 
#6
White Horse

Selly Oak has Military as well as NHS reception staff,I know ,because I had to give my details to an RAF Flight Sgt.
 
#7
MDHU's are at:

Frimley Park Hospital, near Aldershot (Army lead)

Derriford Hospital, Plymouth (Navy lead)

Peterborough District Hospital (RAF lead)

Friarage Hospital, Northallerton (Army lead)

QA Hospital, Portsmouth (joint)

There is also RCDM in Birmingham, at Selly Oak Hospital, though patients end up in any of 5 different sites.

If you attend A&E or are admitted, you may be treated by mil pers, but probably won't be. The only way we'll be aware of you is if a) you tell us (every MDHU has a mil admin/HQ), or b) the NHS staff get it right on teh computer. If asked, NHS staff should contact MDHU HQ and someone from the military will visit (a welfare officer, or someone from mil admin), though in my experience many NHS staff are poorly educated/motivated about this.
 
#9
LogicaCMG's programme team includes EMIS, who already provide the MoD's primary care system, Software of Excellence, who provide dental solutions, and General Dynamics UK, a military communications operator
.

Lovley , lovely , lovely

[/quote]
 
#10
and General Dynamics UK, a military communications operator
.
Meaning Bowman....

as far as I'm aware the core database of the MOD system will be similar to the NHS one. Many of the other systems will be based on equivalent NHS systems
 
#11
By coincidence, we were just discussing DMicP.

It cannot help but be an improvement to our current system, which runs (v e r y slowly), on Windoze NT and crashes regularly. My own machine has just been returned after being away for two weeks for repair - and it still crashes several times a day!
 
#12
I worked for the NHS in Leicestershire and left because i couldnt believe my eyes...money being wasted left right and centre...

example 1) my job was to take a new PC from stores, dump an image on it and drive to a GP and install it, drive back to base, tick a box, go to stores, collect another PC and start again, i was paid £22,000 plus expenses for that....IMO a 17 yr old school leaver could have been trusted to do that as long as he/she had a drivers licence and could have paid them £10,000....there were 3 of us!!!

Example 2) anything other than PCs (from DELL) were purchased from PC world, and they paid "List" price. never asked for discount, never purchased in bulk to save on delivery, ordering kit every day and paying end user prices...and paying £12 delivery per item too.

Absolutely ludicrous, and that was a relitively small NHS trust. i have friends who worked for Derbyshire before it merged with Nottinghamshire, they told similar stories about other aspects.....

complete waste of our money.

Rincewind
 
#13
I think you'll find that it is the same case throughout any govt agencies. Many managers and bean counters have little or no knowlege of the very are they are in charge of, and most IT suppliers are going to do nothing to stop this gravy train. In education here in Lancashire I often find myself exasperated at the fact that a primary school can spend just as much on 10 new computers ordered by a teacher as a high school does on 30 PC's ordered by an experienced network manager.
 
#14
I work in the NHS and yes the waste is huge coupled with incapable and incompetent management and the biggest empire builders of the lot Administration!!!!! not nursing Added to which doctors who want huge payrises to do less work and who actually don't do the job they are paid to to begin with basically cause they can't be ar*ed to see their patients.
Nurses are actually one of the most dumped on professions in the health service we do our own jobs a huge chunk of the doctors job and pick up the pieces whilst being shafted by our own heirarchy.

Remember doctors all the little jobs you passed on
IV drugs
canulation
cathertisation
ETC

all done by nurses on Extended Role Rules for no extra money and all according to the NMC can be handed back to Doctors at any stage..
 
#15
nurse said:
I work in the NHS and yes the waste is huge coupled with incapable and incompetent management and the biggest empire builders of the lot Administration!!!!! not nursing Added to which doctors who want huge payrises to do less work and who actually don't do the job they are paid to to begin with basically cause they can't be ar*ed to see their patients.
Nurses are actually one of the most dumped on professions in the health service we do our own jobs a huge chunk of the doctors job and pick up the pieces whilst being shafted by our own heirarchy.

Remember doctors all the little jobs you passed on
IV drugs
canulation
cathertisation
ETC

all done by nurses on Extended Role Rules for no extra money and all according to the NMC can be handed back to Doctors at any stage..

I don't think that the nurses had these jobs 'dumped' on them at all - my recollection is that they couldn't wait to take them on! Remember all those cries of 'independent practitioner'? Interestingly, it seems that most of our HOs and SHOs spend much of their time giving IV drugs, cannulating and catheterising (at least I can spell! :D ), largely because the nurses won't. You didn't mention the HCAs - the people who actually look after the patients. Curiously, many of them feel that they are dumped on by nurses.

In my hospital, and I suspect in many others, a high proportion of the admin empire now consists of nurses who no longer directly look after patients - all that facilitating and governance drivel!

Perhaps we should also look at the incredibly high dropout rate from nurse training - it costs the NHS a vast amount every year.

This is not to say I'm having a go exclusively at nurses, but they must accept much of the responsibility for the problems of the NHS.
 
#16
Nurses are happy to be seen as "independent practitioners" because they are intelligent, skilled and qualified to do the work, and would rather do it themselves than bleep a Doctor and wait until the patient is about to crash before that Doctor has time to arrive and do what the Nurse could have done themselves.

By nature, they tend to care a lot about the work that they do and will put up with almost anything to do the best job they can. They will work through breaks and after their shifts without being paid if they are needed, and will put their own health at risk (being ARRSE members everyone will be familiar with that!).

Despite their work ethic, nurses have never been paid properly - after 4 years of University and practical training I went into the NHS at 13 1/2 grand, whereas a GCSE-standard admin assistant could have got at least 14.

It's true that Nurses do not get to spend as much time with patients as they should any more, and that HCAs are getting more and more training to do Nurses jobs... because the NHS gets away with paying them even less!
 
#17
Badger_lady said:
Nurses are happy to be seen as "independent practitioners" because they are intelligent, skilled and qualified to do the work, and would rather do it themselves than bleep a Doctor and wait until the patient is about to crash before that Doctor has time to arrive and do what the Nurse could have done themselves.

By nature, they tend to care a lot about the work that they do and will put up with almost anything to do the best job they can. They will work through breaks and after their shifts without being paid if they are needed, and will put their own health at risk (being ARRSE members everyone will be familiar with that!).

Despite their work ethic, nurses have never been paid properly - after 4 years of University and practical training I went into the NHS at 13 1/2 grand, whereas a GCSE-standard admin assistant could have got at least 14.

It's true that Nurses do not get to spend as much time with patients as they should any more, and that HCAs are getting more and more training to do Nurses jobs... because the NHS gets away with paying them even less!
3 years university....now what about those that became nurses before the 2000 project? is not similar training but now it sounds good because the training was passed onto universities rather than teacher hospitals?. HCA's are they the ones that do the Ob's serve the meals and generally do the work, until it comes to dishing out the meds?..in my local NHS hospital..how to spot a nurse.it's easy they are round the computer on the internet(yes generalisation)when you want to see nurses on the ward just wait for doctors rounds then they seem to be busy!!! cynical me??
 
#18
In mine it was both nurses and HCAs who did obs and meals...
Don't take a lot of skill and training to do those.

What about wound management, skincare, preparing for surgery, infection control, dietary management, co-ordinating requirements for physiotherapy, occ therapy, long-term placement...

I am not disbuting the importance of holding patients' hands and doing the day-to-day jobs, but I've never been to a ward with Internet Access or time to make use of it!
 
#19
Badger_lady said:
What about wound management, skincare, preparing for surgery, infection control, dietary management, co-ordinating requirements for physiotherapy, occ therapy, long-term placement...

I am not disbuting the importance of holding patients' hands and doing the day-to-day jobs, but I've never been to a ward with Internet Access or time to make use of it!
This is partly what I have been talking about - there are now nurses specialising in wound management, skin care and infection control (thousands of 'em, it seems, and still MRSA everywhere). In my hospital dietitians deal with dietary management, physiotherapy is organised by the physios in consultation with doctors (though my mil physio friend is endlessly exasperated at how inefficient the civ side is), we have occupational therapists and social services (when they can be found) deal with long term placements. We do have internet access on wards, too.

As research for an essay I had to write for an OU course, I looked at patient complaints - of those concerning non-clinical aspects of care a large proportion concerned poor communication, and these often involved nurses. The overwhelming impression that patients had is that nurses are often perceived to be unapproachable ('they always say they're busy but they're always round the nurses station chatting'), unwilling to carry out basic care ('they wait until an HCA can come'), and they are seen as self-important and patronising, in that they seem to have little inclination to talk to patients. There are, of course, many nurses who are utterly dedicated and professional, but can the NHS afford to ignore how the patients feel?

Though nurses make an informed choice when deciding to take up nursing, many do find the pay unsatisfactory, and this is certainly one reason why so many give up looking after patients, vote with tehir feet and become managers, pharmaceutical reps et al. Perhaps if the NHS took a long hard look at what is actually needed (and the RCN got rid of that frightful yank woman), and returned to basics, things would get better.
 
#20
It obviously depends on where you go - and we must have had some vastly differing experiences! If that really is the case in some areas, then there is a huge problem and as with most large organisations, most of it is a result of poor communication.

I'm glad to be out of it anyway...
 

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