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NHS faces huge budget shortfall

#2
The biggest trouble for the NHS is funding 'well medicine'. That is fertility, cosmetic surgery etc. If the NHS just treated illness and injury and pared down it's overstuffed (at managerial level) infrastructure then the finances would be a lot easier to manage.
 
#3
I work for a company that has recently inherited some ex NHS managers and directors.

What a bunch of un-disciplined dithering morons. These people should be deprived of O2 Never have i seen such waste on such simple common sense tasks by so called professionals.
The general trades persons (doctors and Nurses are not too bad) however since the introduction of specialised medical managers, (in the late 80’s and 90’s)the NHS has gone from gaping financial black hole to a financial sucking vacuum of despair.
 
#4
Gosh another of Gordons Flagships goes to the bottom, I thought things could only get better and there was me waiting to have my moobs realigned.
 
#6
Well I work in the NHS deal with managers on a daily basis and wouldn't want their job. Every one hates them. They are over worked and in this trust severly paired down. They do take a lot of the paper workload off clinical staff. However it is not nescessarily the managers but the system. With both my NHS and military head on I can see very many similarities in a civil service based delivery system. Most of it seems to be spent meeting the rules and demands of conditions imposed on the NHS, very similar to the armed forces. Infact any governmant based delivery service i.e. Police, Customs and Excise or Revenue and taxes or any of a hundred other services are blighted by outside demands that in a lot of cases private industry does not have.

Good grief have I just stood up for "them". Yep!

Obviously I'm talking abot THEM though....
 
#7
As theres less and less people working and more and more retired people living longer, the NHS will become increasingly difficult to sustain as retired people consume healthcare disproportionately. Ultimately, the NHS (and the Welfare State in general) was created for the society of the 1940s, and its hardly a surprise it won't work for a society completely transformed in underlying structure since then...
 
#8
Bradstyley said:
As theres less and less people working and more and more retired people living longer, the NHS will become increasingly difficult to sustain as retired people consume healthcare disproportionately. Ultimately, the NHS (and the Welfare State in general) was created for the society of the 1940s, and its hardly a surprise it won't work for a society completely transformed in underlying structure since then...
I'd go along with the 'it was the pensioners what done it' line if I were convinced that they got anything over and above the very basic brutish level of treatment. How many pensioners could have their lot improved for the equal of a IVF course? How many of those IVF are for women who delayed using their natural fertility so they could have a career but now want to go all mumsy? I find it difficult to accept that we do not have the brains to adapt 1940 procedures to suit 2010 demands. On that reasoning we would still be flying twin winged aircraft and 1 in 2000 would have TV.
 
#9
I've been looking for a job for some time. Its very noticeable that, whilst most sectors are currently showing a complete collapse in recruitment, there continue to be advertised an incredible number of well-paid NHS-related positions. Given the very high cost of these position (not least in future public sector pension liabilities), its hard not to avoid the impression that this is a public-spending juggernaut out of control.
 
#11
PFI's/PPP's have been the biggest money tip, diverting funds that would have kept trusts in control of their own facilities and assets. The tories invented them, but they were arguably never meant to be used on the scale that they have been that ties the NHS into horrifically expensive contracts that don't deliver and they can't get out of, leaving them operating with one hand tied behind their back and wearing a blindfold.
 
#12
milsum said:
PFI's/PPP's have been the biggest money tip, diverting funds that would have kept trusts in control of their own facilities and assets. The tories invented them, but they were arguably never meant to be used on the scale that they have been that ties the NHS into horrifically expensive contracts that don't deliver and they can't get out of, leaving them operating with one hand tied behind their back and wearing a blindfold.
Something like this;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8081936.stm

50bn payment for 10bn worth of assets - value for money I'd say.

What was wrong with the old hospitals?
 
#13
Problem begins with a Labour "pledge" to match average EU health spend.

So you throw more money at an already vastly inefficent system, then make it worse by making that system dance to paper performance targets for PR purposes and require manic reporting levels, all required to keep the funding flowing

In that process you naturally create over time a layer of management that is promoted and rewarded by reference to the abilty to run and manipulate said reporting and target system (thus generating funding) and in many cases now has little real ability to do anything else, like actually run a real hospital.

Then, whilst pledging to match EU health spend levels, you impose the huge millstone of 100 PFI funded hospital at vast long term cost in return for short term political gain.

Then, when it all starts looking like being revealed as having been a vast con trick likely to blow holes in the finances of UK plc, , you change the accounting rules. Again.

Treasury U-turn on PFI takes pressure off DH capital budget

4 June 2009

"The move was expected to mean that up to £30bn of PFI debts would be included in the UK’s public sector net debt figures - a measure used by the government to indicate the stability and credit-worthiness of the public finances.

The Treasury is expected to claim the U-turn is needed so that national accounts align with EU standards. But sources close to the Treasury told HSJ the real reason was the need to improve the appearance of the national accounts, which had worsened in the economic downturn."



http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/finance/t...ressure-off-dh-capital-budget/5002285.article

What could possibly go wrong?
 
#14
OldRedCap said:
Bradstyley said:
As theres less and less people working and more and more retired people living longer, the NHS will become increasingly difficult to sustain as retired people consume healthcare disproportionately. Ultimately, the NHS (and the Welfare State in general) was created for the society of the 1940s, and its hardly a surprise it won't work for a society completely transformed in underlying structure since then...
I'd go along with the 'it was the pensioners what done it' line if I were convinced that they got anything over and above the very basic brutish level of treatment. How many pensioners could have their lot improved for the equal of a IVF course? How many of those IVF are for women who delayed using their natural fertility so they could have a career but now want to go all mumsy? I find it difficult to accept that we do not have the brains to adapt 1940 procedures to suit 2010 demands. On that reasoning we would still be flying twin winged aircraft and 1 in 2000 would have TV.
I don't find it diffcult at all, since public sector decision making isn't made on a basis of rational efficiency, but on party politics. And thats before we look at a taxpayer-funded organisation designed for a high population growth/low number of people on benefits/slow technology growth era, when we're an aging population with many, many people on benefits and rapid change in medical technology, it just ain't gonna be feasible! But lets just keep throwing more and more money at it without fundamentally changing it, that'll work in the long run...I'm not blaming penisoners for getting old and being ill! But an aging population means higher healthcare costs, end of, perhaps if they hadn't been lied to all their lives being told they were going to get cradle to grave care the situation could've been nipped in the bud with big reforms...
 
#16
Bradstyley,
Its not that "the pensioner done it", its that the balance of population is shifting from being predominately young er working adults, to being an ageing population. Pensioners do not contribute much income to be taxed, thus the NHS doesnt get as much money.
Medical advances are prolonging the life of people, thus extending the time they are a net drain on resources.
T
 
#17
None of what everyone has commented on is news though the real problem with the NHS is the governments attempts:

1 Make it seemingly turn a profit!
2 Ignore trusts that need help or direction!
3 constanly set and or change targets with no real reasoning behind them...etc etc etc
 
#18
It'll only face a huge shortfall if the (Tory) government in 2011 fails to control costs as epically as Gordon's loony left have.

My local hospital is cutting nursing staff and closing entire wards, yet they find money to employ a 'traditional healer' who claims to treat cancer patients by using 'magic' crystals and by projecting 'healing energies' from her hands.

A 1 minute search on NHS Jobs turned up an ad for an 'Energy and Environment Manager' to 'lead on the development and implementation of a robust carbon reduction strategy'. WTF has that got to do with treating the sick?

Our windmill gurus are, of course supplemented by hundreds of ads for equality, diversity and inclusion managers on salaries of up to £95k (that's more than the NHS pays a fecking brain surgeon).

At a time when entire hospitals are being closed down, the NHS somehow finds cash to run not one but two homoeopathic hospitals. All serious, scientific studies into homoeopathy have dismissed it as ineffective. Why is the NHS paying for this while refusing to pay for drugs that have been proved to be effective?

The NHS has been allowed to generate into something akin to the Augean Stables. Is Dave the man to clean them? I don't know. What I do know is that there's enough fat in the organisation to cut costs significantly before you start reducing front line services.
 
#19
salforddude said:
Bradstyley,
Its not that "the pensioner done it", its that the balance of population is shifting from being predominately young er working adults, to being an ageing population. Pensioners do not contribute much income to be taxed, thus the NHS doesnt get as much money.
Medical advances are prolonging the life of people, thus extending the time they are a net drain on resources.
T
erm, yeah, thats what i said in my 2 posts...
 
#20
I am still waiting for my appointment at Addenbrookes (which occurs on Monday) after being referred 8 months ago. Incidentally it is an outpatient appointment and will take probably a 10 minute consultation.
 

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