NHS "Crisis " Is it as bad as the BBC makes out ?

Every time I switch on the BBC news , they are trying to make out the NHS A&E system is on the brink of collapse .
Are they ramping it up to help their friends in the Labour Party in the run up to an election or are things as bas as they make out .
Eamonn Holmes was far more balanced and sensible on Sky and gave Andy Burnham a hard time , saying that
in coalition run England 92% of hospitals met their A&E targets ,so where is the crisis , whereas in Labour run Wales the figure was 80% . Andy more or less shut up then .
What's the problem anyway ? Is it too many people going to casualty with colds and flu , who really should just take Lemsip and stay at home , or is it a tidal wave of serious cases ?
Eamonn suggested charging people at casualty , saying then people would stay at home .
Also suggested was having GP's at casualty to hand out aspirin and tell said lead swingers with colds to eff off home .
Or is it all Thatcher's fault , as usual ?
 
Well if you believe the stories it is because it is impossible to get a GPs appointment in less than 2 weeks and even then it will be with a doctor who doesn't speak English and will probably give you the wrong drugs, so the only thing to do when you are feeling a bit ill is to go to accident and emergency (the name of which should give you a clue as to what it is actually for) and wait around for 4 hours or so.
 
More importantly, and I speak as a lefty with no wish to see the Coalition get an easy time, is it as bad as the people speaking to the BBC make out?

I question those in the NHS for whom the days of the Labour Governments largesse to the service (which I'm smack bang alongside by the way) are but a distant memory.
 
Well if you believe the stories it is because it is impossible to get a GPs appointment in less than 2 weeks and even then it will be with a doctor who doesn't speak English and will probably give you the wrong drugs, so the only thing to do when you are feeling a bit ill is to go to accident and emergency (the name of which should give you a clue as to what it is actually for) and wait around for 4 hours or so.
Oh, so it's the Daily Heils fault?
 

philc

LE
If this is just an exercise in meeting a target, as soon as you arrive a triage nurse sees you, asses you and then you wait. Target met you have seen someone within four hours, move on next issue.
 
the key to tackling this problem is to stop giving in to GP's every time they spit out their dummies over having to do any work at all. Out of hours GP coverage is all but gone if you have to go to the hospital to see a GP you may as well go to A&E at least then you get a half decent triage in stead of the usual take two asprin and see your doctor tomorrow (which you know will be next to impossible).

Add on top of that the multitude of attention seekers that A&E attract anyway and you have yourselves a crisis not of their own making.

GP's have become a law onto themselves time to rein them back in and remind them they work for the NHS not against it
 

A.N.Other

War Hero
On the weekend my daughter's friend went to the local minor injuries unit. She had been out the night before and woken with a pain in her finger. No obvious damage, was able to use the finger, it was just difficult to use due to the pain. She was convinced it was broken and asked my daughter to take her to the hospital.

As expected it was bruised. No serious injury. All she needed was Ibuprofen and to rest it.

It seems to me that the problem isn't that the NHS cannot cope. It is the trivial and unnecessary demand placed on a system designed and sized for emergency use.

This is an issue created and perpetuated by all mainstream political parties. The sense of entitlement generated in a large number of the public means they are no longer sufficiently self reliant. Whether it is demanding antibiotics for a virus, home GP visits or ambulances for nonemergency births (maternataxis), they all place an unnecessary strain on the service.

The NHS isn't the problem. It is the demand placed ton it by a society that demands preferential treatment.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
There is one basic problem with the NHS - it is not efficiently managed and therefore makes very poor use of the resources it has. All political parties keep trying to fix the problem by throwing more money at the NHS - a waste of time considering the inefficiencies of the system.

What is needed is a serious debate on how to manage the NHS efficiently and make better use of the resources it has. Until that debate starts all you will get is willy waving from the political parties saying "I can spend more than you can".

Managing the NHS efficiently probably means:

- Asking the doctors and nurses what is required with the proviso that spending will rise no more than inflation.
- Getting political consensus on the reforms they suggest.
- Stopping political interference with the NHS.

None of which will happen because the main parties will spend more time trying to score points off each other than actually debating the real problems of waste and inefficiency.

Wordsmith
 
Devolve all hospitals to their respective Borough or District councils .
If you are not on the electoral roll , you won't get seen.
If you are from Manchester but are in an emergency in Marylebone , simple phone call to match up the paperwork .
If you need a bed , you are transferred back to Manchester .
When the budgets are localised , this bottomless financial pit will begin to get filled in .
The effect on house prices will be startling too .....
 

greyfergie

MIA
Book Reviewer
The timing is priceless! Unison have been given the bums rush by the government at least 15 times in the last 4 years. There's an election just around the corner, I think a lot of this is a petulant kick in the bollocks for the govenment :)
 
E

EScotia

Guest
Every time I've been in A&E at Ninewells hospital in Dundee over the last 4 years and been waiting in a booth for a consultant there's been someone in another booth who's taken drugs of some kind (and is now seemingly so sorry) that is being monitored by the nurses. Seen a few drunks needing patched up (presumably from falling over or being in a fight), a few swollen ankles and wrists and a few that have gone direct to wards or operating theatres. Rarely has the waiting room been full and thankfully I've never been at A&E at night.
 
There is one basic problem with the NHS - it is not efficiently managed and therefore makes very poor use of the resources it has. All political parties keep trying to fix the problem by throwing more money at the NHS - a waste of time considering the inefficiencies of the system.

What is needed is a serious debate on how to manage the NHS efficiently and make better use of the resources it has. Until that debate starts all you will get is willy waving from the political parties saying "I can spend more than you can".

Managing the NHS efficiently probably means:

- Asking the doctors and nurses what is required with the proviso that spending will rise no more than inflation.
- Getting political consensus on the reforms they suggest.
- Stopping political interference with the NHS.

None of which will happen because the main parties will spend more time trying to score points off each other than actually debating the real problems of waste and inefficiency.

Wordsmith

You're asking Labour to give away the one issue that squeezes them through the door of No 10 in virtually every election they win. Couple that with the fact that the Tories would rather ceremonially put their own penises in a mangle on live TV than actually listen to Healthcare professionals and you have a buggers muddle.

You're right though. And I also think that hospitals should return to the days of Matron and the head consultant running the place. Plenty of minions but get rid of these 30k a year and company car wombles that eat so much of the budget.

Oh and reintroduce nurses to the idea of care and its meaning rather than what a book tells them it is, as well as a brush, mop, bucket, dettol et al. My mothers side of the family were all nurses and still talk in hushed tones about the standards of hygiene and care demanded by their sisters and worst of all Matron.
 
More importantly, and I speak as a lefty with no wish to see the Coalition get an easy time, is it as bad as the people speaking to the BBC make out?

I question those in the NHS for whom the days of the Labour Governments largesse to the service (which I'm smack bang alongside by the way) are but a distant memory.
It's amazing that they all go tits up at the same time in the run up to an election isn't it? Almost as if they had common purpose.
 
Well if you believe the stories it is because it is impossible to get a GPs appointment in less than 2 weeks and even then it will be with a doctor who doesn't speak English and will probably give you the wrong drugs, so the only thing to do when you are feeling a bit ill is to go to accident and emergency (the name of which should give you a clue as to what it is actually for) and wait around for 4 hours or so.

Well. I can book an appointment online and that appointment will be in about a month and see my doctor, or I can ring an 0800 number, pay thro the nose and might get an appointment within a week if it's not busy. Then I might see anybody, including locums who've I've never seen before and who have no idea what I've done or had before other than what's on the notes.
 
Couple that with the fact that the Tories would rather ceremonially put their own penises in a mangle on live TV than actually listen to Healthcare professionals and you have a buggers muddle.
.

It's strange how Andrew Lansley, as shadow Health minster, spent all his time pre GE talking to Health professionals about his ideas and their thinking on them as repeatedly reported by the print media. The general thrust of his ideas was, as reported by the print media, generally accepted by Health professionals. Soon as he's in office, the visual media went all Alice in Wonderland on him, along with a number of health professionals, along with a number of frankly untrustworthy professional Health bodies.
 
It's strange how Andrew Lansley, as shadow Health minster, spent all his time pre GE talking to Health professionals about his ideas and their thinking on them as repeatedly reported by the print media. The general thrust of his ideas was, as reported by the print media, generally accepted by Health professionals. Soon as he's in office, the visual media went all Alice in Wonderland on him, along with a number of health professionals, along with a number of frankly untrustworthy professional Health bodies.

The problem was his General thrust didn't match the sexting. At least that's what the professionals will tell you. And his Government fed him to the wood chipper toute suite so he was friendless on either side of the debate. All of which probably means his plans were pretty sound...

I have to say, I am rather dispirited with the entire debate and tend to look with all pronouncements with a slight squint and my head tilted just so.
 
There is one basic problem with the NHS - it is not efficiently managed and therefore makes very poor use of the resources it has. All political parties keep trying to fix the problem by throwing more money at the NHS - a waste of time considering the inefficiencies of the system.

What is needed is a serious debate on how to manage the NHS efficiently and make better use of the resources it has. Until that debate starts all you will get is willy waving from the political parties saying "I can spend more than you can".

Managing the NHS efficiently probably means:

- Asking the doctors and nurses what is required with the proviso that spending will rise no more than inflation.
- Getting political consensus on the reforms they suggest.
- Stopping political interference with the NHS.

None of which will happen because the main parties will spend more time trying to score points off each other than actually debating the real problems of waste and inefficiency.

Wordsmith
More management?

Not sure that the workforce would agree that this is the problem.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
There are also three huge problems none of the main political parties wants to talk about:

1) Immigration is adding around 250,000 extra people a year to the number of people the NHS has to cater for over and beyond our natural birth rate.

2) People are living longer, so put more demands on the NHS due to age related problems.

3) Treatments are improving, meaning more diseases can be treated. However, these treatments (for example for cancer) can be extremely expensive.

The existing NHS model cannot cope with those factors. And as none of the main parties seem to want to confront the problems, the situation will keep on getting worse.

Wordsmith
 

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