Newsnight Debates Hassan Butt

[Sven]

One time terrorist recruiter and Al Q fund raiser Hassan Butt was discussed tonight on Newsnight. On opposite ends of the debate was a woman who was in the 7/7 bombings and who represents some of the other survivors of the bombs and Patrick Mercer.

The woman (who's name escapes me) was of the opinion that by de-radicalising some of the young men who had been fed extreme Islamic claptrap and had become fundementalist, Butt was providing us with a valuble asset. (Butt lost the last of His fundamentalist zeal with the actions of the 7th of July, and the duplicity of Al Q was brought home to Him when He went to the Middle East thinking that His leaders were going to try to allay His misgivings but found they were attempting to send Him to Iraq).

Patrick Mercer on the other hand wanted the guy investigated and if He had done anything illegal (which Butt was not denying - He was forthcoming about His misdeeds) then He should be charged and locked up. He was scathing of McNulty for meeting with Butt.


The reason for this thread is to discuss the relative value of having Butt on our side and the possibility of losing Him if He gets locked up and becomes disallusioned with helping our fight against radical Islam.

 

[Yellow_Devil]

The bloke is regarded as a bit of a fantasist so don't think there would be much value in locking him up. Like our friend the "TA spy" discussed in threads earlier today, I think the security services looked into his affairs and decided he was a extremist walt. Now he is posing as an ex-extremist walt but the media is still treating him as if his opinion was worth listening to.

Let's face it, if you were recruiting bods for jihad against British forces in Iraq, your first port of call would not be to give interviews to the Daily Mail as this joker was doing in 2003.

I'm surprised Patrick Mercer gave him the time of day.

 

[All_I_Want]

I see you have the "fine" art of a politicians poll sven.

Point people in the right direction on the question and you will get the results you require.


ie.

Allowed to get on with de-radicalising extreme Islamic youths<-- All well and good if true.

Locked up for past crimes and risk losing Him as an asset<-- All bad if true.

Why the bold bit?

Just a Yes or no at least would have got a more representative poll.

 

[Idrach]

The woman (who's name escapes me)

The lady in question is Rachel North, her blog is here: http://rachelnorthlondon.blogspot.com/

Her book, "Out of the Tunnel", about 7/7, is not bad, either.

I.

 

[Biped]

The only questions that matter are:

1. Will radicalised islamic yoof take him seriously?
2. Will Islamic leadership take him seriously?
3. Was he ever a major threat to this country?
4. Does he have an insight into radical Islam that would be of any use?

Judging by the fact that the verdict is that he is a walt, then the answer to the above is no.

On the other hand, if he's fessed up and gets locked up, then that too would be counter productive. Let him have his 5 minutes and then flick the 'Ignore' button.

 

[Sven]

The bloke is regarded as a bit of a fantasist so don't think there would be much value in locking him up. Like our friend the "TA spy" discussed in threads earlier today, I think the security services looked into his affairs and decided he was a extremist walt. Now he is posing as an ex-extremist walt but the media is still treating him as if his opinion was worth listening to.

Let's face it, if you were recruiting bods for jihad against British forces in Iraq, your first port of call would not be to give interviews to the Daily Mail as this joker was doing in 2003.

I'm surprised Patrick Mercer gave him the time of day.

You have a link to this as EVERYONE on Newsnight thought Butt was authentic and it isn't like Paxman not to do His research.

 

[Yellow_Devil]

The bloke is regarded as a bit of a fantasist so don't think there would be much value in locking him up. Like our friend the "TA spy" discussed in threads earlier today, I think the security services looked into his affairs and decided he was a extremist walt. Now he is posing as an ex-extremist walt but the media is still treating him as if his opinion was worth listening to.

You have a link to this as EVERYONE on Newsnight thought Butt was authentic and it isn't like Paxman not to do His research.

More fool them - see this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1746454.stm (BBC, Jan 2002)

UK 'terror target' claim dismissed

Downing Street and sceptical British Muslim groups have dismissed claims that Britons recruited for the Taleban will return to the UK and launch terror attacks.

Hassan Butt, 22, from Manchester, told the BBC's Today programme that many would return home to launch terrorist attacks that "strike at the heart" of the UK.

The Lahore-based activist, who claims to be a "spokesman" for Islamic fundamentalist group al-Muhajiroun, says he has recruited 200 British volunteers to fight for the ousted Afghan regime.

The Metropolitan Police are investigating whether a prosecution can be launched against Mr Butt.

Mr Butt told the Radio 4 programme he would now personally encourage attacks on political and military targets in the UK.

But his claims to speak for al-Muhajiroun have already been denied by the organisation's leader, Tottenham-based cleric Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed.

And both Downing Street and the Home Office said Mr Butt's claims should be treated with caution, while Muslim groups accused him of being a fantasist.

Speaking from Lahore, Mr Butt insisted the fall of the Taleban did not spell the end of the holy war against the West.

'Mujahideen coming'

He said that although many British Muslims had been "martyred", others could be bringing the war home from Afghanistan.

"If they do return I do believe that they will take military action within Britain," he told the BBC.

"One thing I've always tried to stress is the point that the mujahideen that are coming in from Britain should strike at the heart of the enemy which is within its own country, within Britain.

"Those mujahideen that are coming from America should strike, again, at the heart of America and I have always been in favour of this."

The prime minister's official spokesman said there was "no evidence" to support Mr Butt's claim that hundreds of British citizens had joined the Taleban.

He added: "Attention seeking does take many different forms.

"We have to be slightly careful in giving too much credibility to claims like this."

British targets

It would be for the police to decide whether Mr Butt should be investigated under the Terrorism Act 2000, which makes it an offence for British citizens to incite acts of terror abroad or recruit people for terrorism training, he said.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said the Met was working with the Crown Prosecution Service to examine the comments on the radio, to establish if any offences had been committed.

Mr Butt said British Muslims would be encouraged to attack "British military and government institutes as well as British military and government individuals".

Asked if they would be helped by the al-Qaeda terrorist network, Mr Butt claimed that any Muslim - including many in the UK - would be willing to offer assistance.

But Mr Bakri Mohammed, a spokesman for the al-Muhajiroun group, said Mr Butt was no longer linked to the organisation.

Political party

"Hassan Butt no longer represents al-Muhajiroun in Pakistan," he told BBC Radio 4's World at One.

"We are an ideological, political party. We do not recruit people to go and fight on behalf of anybody or to indulge in any military activities."

Mr Bakri Mohammed, a radical Muslim cleric based in Tottenham, north London, added: "He no longer even exists in our offices in Lahore.

"He himself now, I think personally, functions as an individual or has his own organisation."

'Secret routes'

Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the self-styled Muslim Parliament of Great Britain, said the interview with Mr Butt was "very worrying and frightening", although he thought the claims were "more fantasy than realism".

Citing his return to Britain last month for three weeks, Mr Butt claimed none of the pro-Taleban volunteers were worried about being caught.

He said the method he used to enter the country was "irrelevant" but there were many "secret" routes into Britain for use by Muslims.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said Mr Butt's comments about a domestic terrorist threat could be "largely fantasising" but his claimed three week stay in the UK raised questions about Britain's intelligence capabilities.

The shadow home secretary added that he viewed Mr Butt's remarks as "traitorous".

The man's a terro-walt

 

[Ord_Sgt]

The bloke is regarded as a bit of a fantasist so don't think there would be much value in locking him up. Like our friend the "TA spy" discussed in threads earlier today, I think the security services looked into his affairs and decided he was a extremist walt. Now he is posing as an ex-extremist walt but the media is still treating him as if his opinion was worth listening to.

Let's face it, if you were recruiting bods for jihad against British forces in Iraq, your first port of call would not be to give interviews to the Daily Mail as this joker was doing in 2003.

I'm surprised Patrick Mercer gave him the time of day.

You have a link to this as EVERYONE on Newsnight thought Butt was authentic and it isn't like Paxman not to do His research.

Ahh must be the truth then. Newsnight, while pretty good, is there to entertain as much as inform. They knew this story would invite controversy so went with it, doesn't make this guy any less of a walt though.

 

[whiffler]

Sven

Mercer's point was that the bloke's claims should be investigated, and only when it was proved what he had been about should he either be put away or used.

Paxman was, of course, playing Devil's advocate and leaping from one extreme position to another.

Mr Butt seems so very earnest, but his 'conversion' a little too good to be true. The fact that he was caught on film so often in the past made him a trifle unusual for a committed terrorist.

W

 

[Sven]

Yellow Devil

Note the quote from Bakri Mohammed - spokesman for al-Muhajiroun - when He said

"Hassan Butt no longer represents al-Muhajiroun in Pakistan . . . .
. . . . . . He no longer even exists in our offices in Lahore"


Don't the enboldened bits more than suggest that Butt WAS once the representative for al-Muhajiroun, and don't Mohammeds words mirror the BNPs when they announced that the Lancashire bomber was no longer a member of 'the party'

the words 'damage limitation' spring to mind

 

[Sven]

Sven

Mercer's point was that the bloke's claims should be investigated, and only when it was proved what he had been about should he either be put away or used.

Paxman was, of course, playing Devil's advocate and leaping from one extreme position to another.

Mr Butt seems so very earnest, but his 'conversion' a little too good to be true. The fact that he was caught on film so often in the past made him a trifle unusual for a committed terrorist.

W

He WAS a member of al-Muhajiroun, an organisation which

The organisation says members would be banned from taking violent action on British soil. Nevertheless, the police and intelligence agencies are focusing on the recruiters and recruited.

Link

 

[Cuddles]

It would be extremely unlike Paxman to do his own research...as for his team I could not possibly comment.