News story: UK’s first A400M aircraft named “City of Bristol”

#21
#22
Is the A400 a BUFF?
 
#24
There can be only one BUFF.

Regards,
MM
 
#25
Is the RAF itself divided on this issue?.

** I mean beyond "Buy it its new and shiny" and I was born in this Herc, I was married in this Herc and I will Die etc. type arguments.

The RAF will be very happy to have nice shiny new toys, who wouldn't be?

The issue is the political clusterfuckery that has ended up with the RAF going from 1 type, the C-130 they were going to replace with the A400 to having no less than 3 types in service thanks in no small part to programme delays, escalating costs and non delivery of promised performance.
The Stategic part of the A400 has never materialised, it's in reality a 30 tonne class aircraft, not the 40 tonne envisaged, so the C-17 can be assured of a long and no doubt excellent career with the RAF. And the A400? Thanks to its payload deficiencies, we're paying strategic lifter prices for a plane that is really only a longer ranged Hercules.

Now, if the RAF get a budget uplift to cover the extra costs, great, but if the Minister tells them 'cut your cloth', not so great. Who's paying for the secret squirrel C-130's that are now staying on for rather longer than anticipated?

Prediction?

We'll eventually accept the A400 is simply too bloody big for sneaking around after dark in other people's back gardens and buy a new batch of SF C-130's down the road.
 
#26
The RAF will be very happy to have nice shiny new toys, who wouldn't be?

The issue is the political clusterfuckery that has ended up with the RAF going from 1 type, the C-130 they were going to replace with the A400 to having no less than 3 types in service thanks in no small part to programme delays, escalating costs and non delivery of promised performance.
.
A400 was never replacing C130 the original plan was a missed fleet of C130J and A400M, had A400 not been bought it would have still been a mixed fleet as C17 would then have been required anyway.

I think your pissing in the wind if you believe C130 will remain in service after A400 is fully inducted. - there wont be the money and they are in need of refurb, however good the arguments to retain them may be.

Not to forget that there are also 125s and 146s to replace at some point, perhaps in the longer term the replacement for these could also provide a number of lighter Tactical transports (C 295 or that Brazilian number )
 
#27
Now, if the RAF get a budget uplift to cover the extra costs, great, but if the Minister tells them 'cut your cloth', not so great. Who's paying for the secret squirrel C-130's that are now staying on for rather longer than anticipated?
It really depends on what the government of the day want the RAF to do. If they want it they'll pay, if they're willing to live with a capability gap they'll not pay.

We'll eventually accept the A400 is simply too bloody big for sneaking around after dark in other people's back gardens and buy a new batch of SF C-130's down the road.
And the Herk is a stealthy low noise transport? See Lindermyer's post for where it goes once the J's are truly shagged. How much life left in them after the use they've had since 2003?
 
#28
The RCS of the A400 must be something to behold....

And the C-295? Nah, the cabin of the C-27, the 'mini Herc' is better suited to the sort of vehicles the SF types like to deploy.
 
#29
And the C-295? Nah, the cabin of the C-27, the 'mini Herc' is better suited to the sort of vehicles the SF types like to deploy.
Fair comment although I was suggested a rough size rather than a specific airframe, C27(J) would have the advantage that a lot of its systems will be supported for a long time by virtue of being in common with the Herc, a potential cost saving is that they will be held in UK stores if C27 came in as 130 bowed out.
 
#30
With todays radars, your RCS will only likely make a difference in being detected if its golf ball sized or below. You certainly wouldn't be attempting to fly transports into the teeth of a modern AD system. You'd likely only attempt to do stealthy ninja stuff if there isn't an air defence system or radars to worry about.
 
#31
Fair comment although I was suggested a rough size rather than a specific airframe, C27(J) would have the advantage that a lot of its systems will be supported for a long time by virtue of being in common with the Herc, a potential cost saving is that they will be held in UK stores if C27 came in as 130 bowed out.

And surplus ones, brand new in cosmoline so to speak are being flogged off cheap by the Yanks.
 
#32
And surplus ones, brand new in cosmoline so to speak are being flogged off cheap by the Yanks.

Do you mean Cosmoline?

The only Cosmoline I can remember is the thick brown waxy gunk we used to seal the aircraft floors. Its not something I thought would have been Ideal for smearing over the aircraft - presumably for storage.

Or have I got my Cosmolines mixed up
 
#33
Do you mean Cosmoline?

The only Cosmoline I can remember is the thick brown waxy gunk we used to seal the aircraft floors. Its not something I thought would have been Ideal for smearing over the aircraft - presumably for storage.

Or have I got my Cosmolines mixed up
Figure of speech when referring to stored things.
 
#34
With todays radars, your RCS will only likely make a difference in being detected if its golf ball sized or below. You certainly wouldn't be attempting to fly transports into the teeth of a modern AD system. You'd likely only attempt to do stealthy ninja stuff if there isn't an air defence system or radars to worry about.
Wrong on all counts oldsoak.

Regards,
MM
 
#36
Wrong on all counts oldsoak.

Regards,
MM
Then please elucidate.
AIUI, a hostile AD system that is a) properly designed and b) properly sighted and integrated is a pretty formidable thing to fly a transport into without a considerable amount of friendly SEAD in place. If one were to rely on rcs as giving a measure of immunity, a C130 is not going to offer much over an A400 or C17.
 
#37
Then please elucidate.
AIUI, a hostile AD system that is a) properly designed and b) properly sighted and integrated is a pretty formidable thing to fly a transport into without a considerable amount of friendly SEAD in place. If one were to rely on rcs as giving a measure of immunity, a C130 is not going to offer much over an A400 or C17.
Someone tell the drivers of the shorter C-130 that get seen flying between the hills in Wales, on the Mach Loop.
 
#38
Then please elucidate.
Yep, a hostile IADS can be formidable. Clearly, this is not the place to discuss all factors. However, there are nearly always gaps in coverage and/or capability which can be exploited. RAF C-130s (and other multi-engined types) have penetrated hostile airspace before and the continuing proliferation of advanced SAMs mean that they will probably have to do so again.

Nor is RCS a linear factor and large spinny things are particularly detrimental to signature. I will guarantee that the RCS of A400M is disproportionately far larger than that of a C-130 (and I suspect also the C-17) simply due to the former's enormous, 8 bladed props.

Ultimately, I have no doubt whatsoever that the RAF will be forced to retain a small number of smaller transports in service beyond 2022 for specialised tasks. Whether they are C-130J, C-27J or another type will remain to be seen.

Regards,
MM
 
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