News story: Royal Navy prepares for future UK fishery patrols

#81
I didn't say they'd undertake fishery patrols. I said operate icw. as you well know operating the UK agencies together from PTP has worked well to day and can work better, in support of a wide range of intelligence led tasks.
And there still wouldn't be capacity to embark and support DEFRA staff with fishery protection as an adjunct to primary taskings.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
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#82
And there still wouldn't be capacity to embark and support DEFRA staff with fishery protection as an adjunct to primary taskings.
And again, I've not said that. Not stated nor inferred ANY fisheries duties. There are things that both (all) agencies can do to help each other, afloat and ashore, which would increase their effectiveness and help the UK.
 
#83
And again, I've not said that. Not stated nor inferred ANY fisheries duties. There are things that both (all) agencies can do to help each other, afloat and ashore, which would increase their effectiveness and help the UK.
Sorry, but given the nature of what the cutters are actually used for, the best that you are going to get out of them is some assistance with targets of opportunity.
 
#84
I still don't understand why the Navy is so against the RNR picking up this task provided it is properly funded or should we establish a proper, separate US-style Coastguard?
 
#93
What? Like the £12.7 million the MOD has received in additional funding to carry out this task? No reason to give it to the RNR, the RN has funding and equipment to carry out this task, something it has been doing in one form or another for centuries. It ain't sexy but it is theirs.
But using the RNR/RN (FTRS) could turn it into something the Navy wants to do rather than something that they resist.
 
#94
Would it not be a good thing for the Navy to expand the RNR and have the posts for RN & RNR to get small ship experience?
They seem reluctant to do it; when I was growing up, the RNR used to have a Minesweper (HMS Carron) moored up in Bristol City docks, so there is a precedent.
 
#95
IF RNR/RN (FTRS) it could prove to be quite an attractive manning model...
They are struggling to attract and retain people to do the things they are currently doing. I'm unsure where anyone would expect any other cohort to be drawn from without having a negative effect on an already depleted pool.
 
#96
But using the RNR/RN (FTRS) could turn it into something the Navy wants to do rather than something that they resist.
Yep; from my experience of recruiting CS for the Reserves, both the RNR and RAuxAF were much more attractive propositions than the AR. I am quite convinced that they could get the numbers required.
 
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#98
OK but they would need to lose the ships, manpower and budget that goes with it so where is the benefit?
I suppose they'd gain a greater manpower pool in a renewed RNR, a lot of small ship handling posts and skills, and reconnect with a lot of communities that they have lost touch with.

I'm with @History_Man in that if we had one or two dedicated patrol vessels in NI, say one in Belfast and one in Derry, I think you'd be beating potential PT & FT RNR from the door; ditto the rest of the UK.
 
#99
I suppose they'd gain a greater manpower pool in a renewed RNR, a lot of small ship handling posts and skills, and reconnect with a lot of communities that they have lost touch with.

I'm with @History_Man in that if we had one or two dedicated patrol vessels in NI, say one in Belfast and one in Derry, I think you'd be beating potential PT & FT RNR from the door; ditto the rest of the UK.
You are losing me a bit here. Are you suggesting getting rid of the state of the art small warships that are currently in service and coming online and replacing them with some sort of Fred Karno type organisation with tugs and post WW2 small boats?
 
I still don't understand why the Navy is so against the RNR picking up this task provided it is properly funded or should we establish a proper, separate US-style Coastguard?
I am RNR, and therefore I can offer a reasonable explanation of why the RNR cannot and possibly should not...

1. Manning

The OPVs are manned on a 24/7 basis, and have three watches to achieve this. That means in excess of fifty bods per ship, plus a small HQ staff. To provide all those people full time would mean either FTRS (which counts against the manpower cap and therefore defeats the object) or mobilisation... Can the RNR provide all the specialisations needed? Does this manpower drain cause problems with other RNR roles, augmentees for Joint Warrior and other exercises, supporting Kipion in the Gulf, supporting task group deployments, providing SQEP ex regular ME and WE personnel to ships as required...

2. SQEP

SQEP is a huge subject across the Navy, including the RNR. To train a reservist for an OPV, a simple vessel that does not have sophisticated weapons, aircraft, or do warfare type stuff, takes time. How will you provide qualified OOW types on the Bridge or a CQ2 qualified CO/XO? Things have moved on the the MCM10 days.

3. A private Navy, or part of the Whole Force?

The RNR does contribute to FPS, but this is one of a number of contributions we (yes that includes me) make contributions across the service and defence in general. Personally I think that is more important than just the Fish job.

They seem reluctant to do it; when I was growing up, the RNR used to have a Minesweper (HMS Carron) moored up in Bristol City docks, so there is a precedent.
Did they spend 300+ days at sea per year? No!

I suppose they'd gain a greater manpower pool in a renewed RNR, a lot of small ship handling posts and skills, and reconnect with a lot of communities that they have lost touch with.

I'm with @History_Man in that if we had one or two dedicated patrol vessels in NI, say one in Belfast and one in Derry, I think you'd be beating potential PT & FT RNR from the door; ditto the rest of the UK.
If they do as much patrolling as the current RCOPVs, they will have little time for training, and need full time manning.

There are no cheap and easy solutions for a constant task. This does not mean we should not continue to use Reservists to work with FPS, or other maritime security roles, but to put an RNR sailor in any role he/she needs the same skills as a regular.
 

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