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News story: Novichok nerve agent use in Salisbury: UK government response

Allow Ms Skripal some dignity in this matter treat her as a person and not some pawn in a game, accept the doctor's statement that she is in the hospital and receiving the appropriate treatment for her condition.
Yes. I get the impression that different rules apply in Russia .I needed access to lots of people in hospital over the years *.Many times, medical staff would not let me in. I accepted this with no feelings or comment. There is a sort of unwritten assumption that all the silliness stops outside the hospital.

* As a plod. Not for any particular underhand reason.
 
It has occurred to me just now that as Ms Skripal is not in custody why would the Russian embassy need to ask the UK government permission to visit her. If the Doctors then tell them she is not able to speak to them that would be another matter.

The UK government has no role to play in this.
 
It has occurred to me just now that as Ms Skripal is not in custody why would the Russian embassy need to ask the UK government permission to visit her. If the Doctors then tell them she is not able to speak to them that would be another matter.

The UK government has no role to play in this.
Indeed. They cannot give their consent to be photographed or receive visitors. Under the NHS Code of Practice, hospitals must have their patients’ permission before allowing this to happen. As they are both in a coma how can they do this?
 
Indeed. They cannot give their consent to be photographed or receive visitors. Under the NHS Code of Practice, hospitals must have their patients’ permission before allowing this to happen. As they are both in a coma how can they do this?
I feel that it is exactly because they are in a coma that the Russian media is making such a fuss about consular access. They of course arent mentioning they haven't asked to see them or the comas, but it makes them sound like they have sonethung to say :)

I noted that during KGB resident's many posts regarding consular access he didnt mention coma once!
 
Indeed. They cannot give their consent to be photographed or receive visitors. Under the NHS Code of Practice, hospitals must have their patients’ permission before allowing this to happen. As they are both in a coma how can they do this?
Well the Russians could always dig up one of the relatives.









At least one of them must be buried in Russia.
 
Many times, medical staff would not let me in. I accepted this with no feelings or comment. There is a sort of unwritten assumption that all the silliness stops outside the hospital.
I wasn't enamoured of the sniffy attitude some of them had, though. You'd get some slag who'd got pissed and totalled his car putting two innocent parties into A&E with possible life changing injuries. Then it was, "Officer, you need to know that our priority is the patient, we are in charge here and, no, you cannot take a breath test". Then 20 minutes later it all kicks off in the triage area.
"Officer, could we have your assistance, please"
"Oh really? But I was given to understand that you were in charge here."
 
"Oh really? But I was given to understand that you were in charge here."
I think a lot of that was to do with their perceived view of the pecking order in so far as they thought of no rank police types ( in my case) as being slightly below the level of a Gibbon on the evolutionary scale. We were suddenly useful when it was wet nappy time.

I find it funny but if I am being honest, find it a lot funnier now than I did then. Rose tinted specs. and stuff m8. I did respect their right to remove me though.
 
It has occurred to me just now that as Ms Skripal is not in custody why would the Russian embassy need to ask the UK government permission to visit her. If the Doctors then tell them she is not able to speak to them that would be another matter.

The UK government has no role to play in this.
To be fair, I would think you're average Russian wouldn't be able to comprehend that.
The whole concept of the government not having cast iron control over every aspect of such things will be entirely alien to KGBLunatic
 
Mr Davydov seems to be conveniently forgetting that in the case of the attempted murder of the Skripals the Russian government had the means, the motive and the opportunity. It’s an open and shut case.
 
I would leave this one. Let the Russian government ask officially in a documentary form. I suppose an email would be ok.

Sergei, have you had a think about how said nerve agent could be administered. I asked you a while back? You ask us but I would like you to give a valid hypothesis. the reason is that you list possible scenarios but fail to develop them. In order to be taken as anything other than obfuscation, we really need to see how they could be played out in a real world scenario. If we tell you what we think, I dare say it will be fed back up the chain and in due course could be used to make things a little less detectable, given that state sponsored assassinations will continue across the world by many regimes.

Would you also consider what the Russian response will be if ( note I say IF) the results come back indicating Russian involvement?

As stated by others, you seem to want to be taken seriously and some of your manifestations are a pleasure to read. And yet at the moment, your prose seem to be mere agitprop.
I'm a mathematician by education and by style of thinking. I dare say that some are unable to understand this mathematical style of thinking. It doesn't mean that they are stupid dullards. No, they just have another style of thinking, another system of 'logical coordinates'.
For example a mathematician during a proof of a theorem regards all theoretically possible options even those that from point of view of many are impossible according to common sense or impossible according to 'balance of probabilities'.
Suppositions that a mathematician makes is not something that he believes in. It is a purely mathematical, formal logical considerations.
Let's regard versions where Moscow ordered to kill mr.Skripal (for any reason) using poison invented in the Soviet union.
So Russian agent (he/she could not be Russian citizen) had to visit Salisbury to perform the dirty job.
The poison could be planted on the grave tomb of the late wife of mr.Skripal. His daughter arrived the previous day and no doubt that she with her Father would visit the grave (and it happened).
The agent could visit Salisbury as a 'tourist' and apply the poison to the tomb using a shooting device that looks as a toy pistol for example. Tiny capsule with poison would be smashed and it could look as a mark made by birds.
But ms.Skripal could use her handkerchief to remove the stain and place it into plastic pocket. Thus poisoning was not completed but both - ms.Skripal and her Farther became a source of poison. The handkerchief could be brought home to be washed later and was also a source of poison. As the Skripals were only partially poisoned then the effect of poisoning happened much later.
Yes, this version of events has many logical holes but I'm unable to construct better version.
I invite others to propose other versions.

I fancy that some ARRSErs would write something like - you yourself claimed that Moscow ordered to kill mr.Skripal. I would not comment it.

You ask what Moscow would do if its responsibility would be properly proved without such things as 'balance of probabilities'?
Nothing. Some years later the case will be just forgotten as it happened with the case of killing of the leader of Chechen separatists mr.Yandarbiyev in Qatar
Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev - Wikipedia
Who now does remember that French government ordered to explode Green Peace ship in New Zealand and Portugese journalist was killed as a result?
Who now does remember killing of Irish separatist in Gibraltar by British agents?

Personally I think that even if the poisoning was ordered by Moscow, then unlikely it would be ever properly proved.
 
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I feel that it is exactly because they are in a coma that the Russian media is making such a fuss about consular access. They of course arent mentioning they haven't asked to see them or the comas, but it makes them sound like they have sonethung to say :)

I noted that during KGB resident's many posts regarding consular access he didnt mention coma once!
I don't mention many thing well-know to everybody. That the Earth is not flat for example.
Of course British authorities claim that ms.Skripal is in coma. But is she really in coma? It is not clear.
If ms.Skripal is in coma then why it is so hard task to show her to Russian consular officer? Why it is so hard task to inform about treatment, about drugs that are being used?
So is she really in coma or just in detention? Now it is an open question. She could say something that points to HMG as responsible for the poisoning.
 
With all the certainty that god exists. One needs to define what real evidence is first and then there is none. Vote for brexit without understanding the consequences. Read only populist versions of an event and become an expert. Insult all who show doubt. Join a lynch mob in a sea of cognitive bias.

This is Arrse.
 
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With all the certainty that god exists. One needs to define what real evidence is first and then there is none. Vote for brexit without understanding the consequences. Read only populist versions of an event and become an expert. Insult all who show doubt. Join a lynch mob in a sea of cognitive bias.

This is Arrse.
Oh dear
You’re a sensitive artiste aren’t you.
 
With all the certainty that god exists. One needs to define what real evidence is first and then there is none. Vote for brexit without understanding the consequences. Read only populist versions of an event and become an expert. Insult all who show doubt. Join a lynch mob in a sea of cognitive bias.

This is Arrse.
But you say you have an ‘open mind’? Yet you post quotes from RT. You say the facts ‘do not follow’ yet they give background and cause.

Do you have any more evidence than the rest of us?
 
Oh dear
You’re a sensitive artiste aren’t you.
You are guilty of ignorance...prove that you are not. These are your rules, not mine.
Please oh great genius enlighten me about my ignorance? What is it exactly that I don’t know about?
Chemical weapons perhaps ? If you’re going to accuse me of not understanding how they work you need to bear in mind that my academic background is relevant is yours?
 
I'm a mathematician by education and by style of thinking. I dare say that some are unable to understand this mathematical style of thinking. It doesn't mean that they are stupid dullards. No, they just have another style of thinking, another system of 'logical coordinates'.
For example a mathematician during a proof of a theorem regards all theoretically possible options even those that from point of view of many are impossible according to common sense or impossible according to 'balance of probabilities'.
Suppositions that a mathematician makes is not something that he believes in. It is a purely mathematical, formal logical considerations.
Let's regard versions where Moscow ordered to kill mr.Skripal (for any reason) using poison invented in the Soviet union.
Ah, Sergey the 'mathematician' is back.
So Russian agent (he/she could not be Russian citizen) had to visit Salisbury to perform the dirty job.
The poison could be planted on the grave tomb of the late wife of mr.Skripal. His daughter arrived the previous day and no doubt that she with her Father would visit the grave (and it happened).
The agent could visit Salisbury as a 'tourist' and apply the poison to the tomb using a shooting device that looks as a toy pistol for example. Tiny capsule with poison would be smashed and it could look as a mark made by birds.
But ms.Skripal could use her handkerchief to remove the stain and place it into plastic pocket. Thus poisoning was not completed but both - ms.Skripal and her Farther became a source of poison. The handkerchief could be brought home to be washed later and was also a source of poison. As the Skripals were only partially poisoned then the effect of poisoning happened much later.
Yes, this version of events has many logical holes but I'm unable to construct better version.
I invite others to propose other versions.
More speculation to feed the 'useful idiots' and trolls.

I fancy that some ARRSErs would write something like - you yourself claimed that Moscow ordered to kill mr.Skripal. I would not comment it.
Nobody on here has any more evidence than (I can't say you as we know who you work for) the man in the street.

You ask what Moscow would do if its responsibility would be properly proved without such things as 'balance of probabilities'?
Nothing. Some years later the case will be just forgotten as it happened with the case of killing of the leader of Chechen separatists mr.Yandarbiyev in Qatar
Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev - Wikipedia
Who now does remember that French government ordered to explode Green Peace ship in New Zealand and Portugese journalist was killed as a result?
Who now does remember killing of Irish separatist in Gibraltar by British agents?
Some 'whataboutery'

Personally I think that even if the poisoning was ordered by Moscow, then unlikely it would be ever properly proved.
Of course not. Even if a suspect is named, he'll be made an MP in the Russian Parliament and any extradition order refused. Russia will continue with its hybrid warfare and the West because of its values will have little answer to it.

Meanwhile the trolls feed speculation which is lapped up by the 'useful idiots.'
 
I don't mention many thing well-know to everybody. That the Earth is not flat for example.
Of course British authorities claim that ms.Skripal is in coma. But is she really in coma? It is not clear.
If ms.Skripal is in coma then why it is so hard task to show her to Russian consular officer? Why it is so hard task to inform about treatment, about drugs that are being used?
So is she really in coma or just in detention? Now it is an open question. She could say something that points to HMG as responsible for the poisoning.
Where is the official request for Consular access? When has the Ambo been to visit the hospital let alone refused access?

You keep spinning the agitprop lie, yet somehow you wish to be thought of as an independent and serious poster?
 
I don't mention many thing well-know to everybody. That the Earth is not flat for example.
Of course British authorities claim that ms.Skripal is in coma. But is she really in coma? It is not clear.
If ms.Skripal is in coma then why it is so hard task to show her to Russian consular officer? Why it is so hard task to inform about treatment, about drugs that are being used?
So is she really in coma or just in detention? Now it is an open question. She could say something that points to HMG as responsible for the poisoning.
Ok, just for the sake of answering your very silly questions, why would Ms Skripal be in detention?
What crime do YOU think she commited?
Have you seen the police say she has been charged with any offence?
As you know of Hansard have you seen the government make a statement saying she has been detained?
Have you seen the police make a atatement saying she has been detained?

Of course you havent seen anything that that could suggest she has been detained and are simply coming up with silly theories that do not make sense for a free country like the UK.

So, and again ignoring the VERY COMMON medical practice of placing seriously ill people into an induced coma to preserve their life

As has already been said it has been impossible for the Russian consulate to see her because:
They havent asked to see her (note you havent shown the document of them asking).
They havent tried to go to the hospital.
She is in a coma so cant consent to visitors (the patient has the final say in the UK)

In short, if the consulate havent asked to see her, havent gone to the hospital and Ms Skripal hasnt said she wants to see them then to a rational person that explains the situation perfectly well.

Looking at your request to know what drugs are being used to treat her here is a very very simple question.
As you are just a private individual on an internet forum who the hell do you think you are that you have a right to know the private details of a hospital patient you don't know or arent related to?

In the UK patient confidentiality is very important, and doctors don't disclose details with the patients consent.

To avoid you bothering to say the Russian consulate has asked to see Ms Skripal please don't say it again until you can show the actual document used.
Plus, please don't try to make up silly excuses like they used the phone or passed the message verbally, this is a case where Russia has been accused of using a chemical weapon in mainland Europe, for something as serious as that NO country would do things without a full paper evidence trail.
 
Ah, Sergey the 'mathematician' is back.

More speculation to feed the 'useful idiots' and trolls.


Nobody on here has any more evidence than (I can't say you as we know who you work for) the man in the street.


Some 'whataboutery'


Of course not. Even if a suspect is named, he'll be made an MP in the Russian Parliament and any extradition order refused. Russia will continue with its hybrid warfare and the West because of its values will have little answer to it.

Meanwhile the trolls feed speculation which is lapped up by the 'useful idiots.'
Your endless tune about 'paid troll' is boring and laughable.
I'm just a private person, an engineer. I live in Moscow and write on ARRSE page what I wish to write.
Sincerely yours, Sergey Poleshchuk

I don't hide my identy. I have nothing to hide.
 

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