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News story: Novichok nerve agent use in Salisbury: UK government response

Unfortunate truths seem to bother you.
Why would that be?
I have posted 2 links that came from the same in-the-know individual (who apparently "invented" this CW) a few days apart, the facts don't match one bit and yet you don't seem to like it?
Maybe it's you who's in the wrong section. the Badgers arrse is very accommodating this time of year, maybe you'd prefer it there.
As for being popular on here?
Do you think I post anomalies and inconsistencies to be popular?
I post these reports as the only rhetoric coming out of your cake-holes is the govt line with, still, zero evidence.
And, yes, these are legitimate concerns on a CA topic so what's your problem?
Seriously lol.
My bold.

Care to share your in-depth knowledge of this investigation? You seem to have so much more knowledge on this, than anyone that is outside of the investigative teams, or in the public domain and I am intrigued.
 
"Traitors always end in a bad way. Usually from drugs in the street."

A quote attributed to who?

Hint; country leader returned with a majority, with a little bit of vote rigging/ballot box stuffing just for good measure and gilt on the domes. (They like that.)
 
You may not have, but everybody else has.

EU demands Russia immediately hand over all information on nerve agent which poisoned spy

“The Russian denials grow increasingly absurd. At one time they say they never made Novichok, at another they say they did make Novichok but all the stocks have been destroyed, and then again they say that they made Novichok and all the stocks have been destroyed but some of them have mysteriously escaped to Sweden, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, the United States, or even the United Kingdom,” he told reporters on the summit doorstep.
I think what people can see is that this is a classic Russia strategy of trying to conceal the needle of truth in a haystack of lies and obfuscation. What really strikes me talking to European friends and partners today is that 12 years after the assassination of Alexander Litvinenko in London they’re not fooling anybody anymore."
"Obfuscation" are allegations from bonkers Boris... Allegations are not evidence in any court of law. Putin has offered to assist in the investigation... but demands by the government that he hands over details of exactly how the crime was committed are daft.
 
"Obfuscation" are allegations from bonkers Boris... Allegations are not evidence in any court of law. Putin has offered to assist in the investigation... but demands by the government that he hands over details of exactly how the crime was committed are daft.
Yawn......Can't be bothered today (anyway you're not half as much fun as Bugsy)
Let's just wait for the findings, shall we?
 
Neither of you answered my question.

I take it you're now re-evaluating the position for which you've both been tirelessly advocating?



Don't bother replying if you aren't even going to attempt to answer my above question.
Bit of a bombshell to find out that we've known all about this CW and have had the Novachok chemist on our payroll who could knock it up ,apparently really easily, since 1992 isn't it?
Cheers.
I'll answer for them.

You utterly broken brained wibbler!
 
I gave you a like for that.
Quite how you have managed to NOT to have seen, read or heard the the obfuscation that has been released several times per day from Russia is simply outstanding. :)

Simply having the ability to read, own a tv, radio and have an internet connection (plus obviously reading this thread and seeing the multiple examples of Russian game playing mentioned) has meant it was impossible not to have seen what you somehow managed to miss!

Well done to you!
My opinions are based upon exactly the same information available to you and the general public. Taking it all with some scepticism, hence I'm not screaming for a pre-emptive strike just yet.
 
My bold.
In the same way that they promised every assistance in the Litvinenko saga? And then poisoned detective inspector Brian Tarpey, who led the investigation and members of his team during a visit to the prosecutor general’s office.? That sort of cooperation?
We don't know what kind of cooperation will be involved.
 
Unfortunate truths seem to bother you.
Why would that be?
I have posted 2 links that came from the same in-the-know individual (who apparently "invented" this CW) a few days apart, the facts don't match one bit and yet you don't seem to like it?
Maybe it's you who's in the wrong section. the Badgers arrse is very accommodating this time of year, maybe you'd prefer it there.
As for being popular on here?
Do you think I post anomalies and inconsistencies to be popular?
I post these reports as the only rhetoric coming out of your cake-holes is the govt line with, still, zero evidence.
And, yes, these are legitimate concerns on a CA topic so what's your problem?
Seriously lol.
Post 5 refers.
 
It is now clear that Mr Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia.

This is part of a group of nerve agents known as ‘Novichok’.

Based on the positive identification of this chemical agent by world-leading experts at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down; our knowledge that Russia has previously produced this agent and would still be capable of doing so; Russia’s record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations; and our assessment that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations; the Government has concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergei and Yulia Skripal.

Mr Speaker, there are therefore only two plausible explanations for what happened in Salisbury on the 4th of March.

Either this was a direct act by the Russian State against our country.

Or the Russian government lost control of this potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.
- PM Theresa May, House of Commons, 12/3/2018


Mr Speaker, on Monday I set out that Mr Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a Novichok: a military grade nerve agent developed by Russia.

Based on this capability, combined with their record of conducting state sponsored assassinations – including against former intelligence officers whom they regard as legitimate targets – the UK government concluded it was highly likely that Russia was responsible for this reckless and despicable act.

And there were only two plausible explanations.

Either this was a direct act by the Russian State against our country.

Or conceivably, the Russian government could have lost control of a military-grade nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.

Mr Speaker, it was right to offer Russia the opportunity to provide an explanation.

But their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events.
- PM Theresa May, House of Commons, 14/3/2018

The PM's statements seem reasonable to me & most of the others who've discussed this subject here (unlike the childishness & obfuscation of Russian responses).

But not to 184461, who's pinning way too much hope on (a) the PM having a good reason to make such statements without good reasons to believe them, & (b) the claim that anyone could have cooked this stuff up accurately enough to fool the boffins who identified it into thinking it was from the Russian state when it wasn't.

Of course we can't rule out the possibility that the culprit was neither working for the Russian govt nor had obtained the substance from the Russian govt, but I think it a slim possibility. However, 184461 seems incensed at the idea that there's any any probability that it was the Russian govt or someone who had obtained the substance from the Russian govt.

So @184461, on a scale of 0 (= no chance) to 10 (= no chance of anything else) where would you put the conclusion drawn by the PM?
 
In this case probability is too strong a word...possibility is more reasonable.
But you said you were keeping an open mind? You're quite happy to ignore facts which are relevant. Yet you dismiss the UK govts stance. Not exactly an open minded approach is it?
Yes there may be some Russian involvement but a direct order from Putin has less credibility.
Russian involvement but not a direct order by Putin? How does that work in the Russia of today? 'Rogue elements'?
This was a rather clumsy effort, perhaps designed to indicate the Kremlin. Denial is their only option...
Is that your open mind again? If your mind is open you could conceive of it being a deliberate attack using signature Russian nerve agent.
I have not heard any obfuscation from them...
You missed blaming Sweden, Czechia?
....now they are willing to cooperate with the investigation. Should be interesting.
If they truly are willing they will allow OPCW impromptu visits and 100% access to where the 'suspected' stores of Novichok and other CW is contained. After MH17 and Litvinenko, along with their vetoes on CW use in Syria we already know what their 'cooperation' will consist of. But you wish to ignore them as they 'do not follow' your train of logic.
 
Russia is the traditional cold war enemy of the West... there is still a 'them and us' legacy.
On both sides. Plenty of people were hoping that it would bite the dust & during the Yeltsin years it often seemed like it would. But the current regime in Russia seems to like the us-&-them mentality very much to the point of actively promoting it.
 
Russia is the traditional cold war enemy of the West... there is still a 'them and us' legacy.
You missed most of the nineties and the early noughties? We had pretty much two decades of dismissing Russia and told not not to worry about them. Georgia was a bit of a wake up call. Crimea and Ukraine were sudden realisation.
 
Independent investigators from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) will arrive in the UK tomorrow to kick off their investigation into the nerve agent used in the attempted assassinations of Mr Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury on 4 March.

The team from The Hague will meet with officials from the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory and the police to discuss the process for collecting samples, including environmental ones.

These will then be despatched to highly reputable international laboratories selected by the OPCW for testing with results expected to take a minimum of 2 weeks.

This is the next step in the process to independently verify the analysis carried out by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down. Last Wednesday, the Prime Minister wrote to the OPCW to formally invite them to verify the government’s analysis of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack. Subsequently the UK’s Permanent Representative to the OPCW wrote to the Technical Secretariat inviting them to come to the UK to take a sample, under Article 8 of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

It reflects the UK’s commitment to fully complying with the obligations of the Chemical Weapons Convention. On 12 March the Foreign Secretary summoned the Russian Ambassador and sought an explanation from the Russian government, as Article 9 of the convention is clear we have the right to do. We received no meaningful response. It is therefore Russia which is failing to comply with the provisions of the convention. We should resist any Russian attempts to muddy the waters.

The Foreign Secretary revealed this morning that we have information indicating that within the last decade, Russia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents likely for assassination. And part of this programme has involved producing and stockpiling quantities of Novichok. This is a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The start of the investigation by the international chemical weapons watchdog comes as the Foreign Secretary travels to Brussels to brief foreign ministers from across the European Union on the attempted assassinations in Salisbury before meeting with the NATO Secretary General.

As the Foreign Secretary noted this morning, we have been encouraged by the international support we have received to date. More than 20 countries across 6 continents have expressed their solidarity with us and we will continue to work with our European partners and allies around the world to tackle the threat posed by Russia to our collective security.


Read more about the UK government response to the Salisbury attack.

Background


  • Novichok is a nerve agent, which meets the Chemical Weapon Convention’s (CWC) definition of a chemical weapon, toxic chemical and precursor. Thus it is covered by the Convention’s prohibitions


  • the chemical was positively identified by world-leading experts at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, which is one of the accredited and designated labs in the OPCW laboratory network.


  • Russia is the official successor state to the USSR. As such, Russia legally took responsibility for ensuring the CWC applies to all former Soviet Chemical Weapons stocks and facilities


  • Members of the Convention must declare chemical weapons stockpiles and facilities and destroy Chemical Weapons within 10 years of the convention coming into force for that party. In 1997, the Chemical Weapons Convention entered into force for Russia and solidified Russian commitments to chemical weapons disarmament and non-proliferation


  • developing, stockpiling and using chemical weapons are all a breach of the Chemical Weapons Convention

Find out more about the UK government response to the Salisbury attack.

Further information

Media enquiries


For journalists


Email newsdesk@fco.gov.uk

Newsdesk 020 7008 3100

Continue reading...
Use the search function :) There's already one thread on the 'critically ill man', you came along and created another. Not sure how a RSS feed can be channelled to the appropriate thread but it would be useful.
 
Let's recall Vienna convention on consular relations that is signed by the UK.
http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf
Article 36 Communication and contact with nationals of the sending State...
(a) consular officers shall be free to communicate with nationals of the sending State and to have access to them.
Now HMG denies access of Russian consular officers to Yulia Skripal who is Russian citizen.
British MSM doesn't care to inform the British about such a rude violation of the Vienna Convention by HMG.
Does it mean that Russian authorities have now right not to respect the Vienna convention?
 
But you said you were keeping an open mind? You're quite happy to ignore facts which are relevant. Yet you dismiss the UK govts stance. Not exactly an open minded approach is it?

Russian involvement but not a direct order by Putin? How does that work in the Russia of today? 'Rogue elements'?

Is that your open mind again? If your mind is open you could conceive of it being a deliberate attack using signature Russian nerve agent.

You missed blaming Sweden, Czechia?

If they truly are willing they will allow OPCW impromptu visits and 100% access to where the 'suspected' stores of Novichok and other CW is contained. After MH17 and Litvinenko, along with their vetoes on CW use in Syria we already know what their 'cooperation' will consist of. But you wish to ignore them as they 'do not follow' your train of logic.
Agreeing with everything that other people say is not being open minded...probably the opposite.
Russia, the UK and the world is full of rogue elements...not all of them report to Putin.
A Russian invented nerve agent does not need to be manufactured in Russia nor does it indicate who used it or why.
I'm not blaming anyone...btw Sergei Skripal has been in UK for 8 years living under his own name. The timing, and motivation for the attack is questionable. I'm not ignoring anything.
 
My opinions are based upon exactly the same information available to you and the general public. Taking it all with some scepticism, hence I'm not screaming for a pre-emptive strike just yet.
As you have no idea what information has been available to me, or what I have chosen to see, hear and read that's quite a silly statement.

Thanks for pointing out that just like every single other poster in this thread you aren't calling for a pre emtive strike (whatever that means in the context of a thread where posters are posting in REACTION to an event). :)
 
You missed most of the nineties and the early noughties? We had pretty much two decades of dismissing Russia and told not not to worry about them. Georgia was a bit of a wake up call. Crimea and Ukraine were sudden realisation.
Ditto... The UK along with the US have embarked on a massive policy of aggression covering two decades... but we have not stopped trading with Russia and the new generation go there for holidays.
 
Let's recall Vienna convention on consular relations that is signed by the UK.
http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf

Now HMG denies access of Russian consular officers to Yulia Skripal who is Russian citizen.
British MSM doesn't care to inform the British about such a rude violation of the Vienna Convention by HMG.
Does it mean that Russian authorities have now right not to respect the Vienna convention?
For what purpose do your Russian consular officers propose to visit Yulia Skripal unrequested?
 

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