News story: Novichok nerve agent use in Salisbury: UK government response

Of course. Meanwhile the investigation continues. If Trump wants 'better relations with Russia' who's doing it? The 'deep state'?


I don't recall enslavement. Extermination, but not so much of the enslavement personally.


I'm sure that really happened..................
Dont mock the tale of the answering back, and especially the slime officer talking of COMRADES. :)

Look on the bright side, thanks to the likes of our Irish hero doing his bit the Soviet system eventually broke down and his beloved socislism completely failed in Russia quite some time ago, and Russia now crows about it being a democratic country or democracy :)

On the downside, poor old private Ivan Ivanovich at a similar gathering on the Warsaw Pact side at the same time knew far better under his political regime than to start answering back to an intelligence officer in a gathering as he knew he didnt have the freedom of speech our Irish hero was defending on BEHALF of the British public :)
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Did you not also wonder just how stupid you may have made yourself look at the time?
If you had been a forced conscript you could have questioned a couple of the points, and the simple and obvious answers could have been easily explained to you. But, as a volunteer in a volunteer army to then complain about things you knew BEFORE you chose to volunteer to join an organisation with those conditions that wouldn't have marked you out as particularly astute!
Ah, sure! I was a17-year-old Irish "culchie" from the darkest depths of Co Waterford, ROI in the mid-1960s when I joined the British Army. I could hardly speak passable English, having only had six years of theoretical instruction at school (eight lessons per week).

However, at that age, I confidently reached into my ärsehole pocket for my wallet and noncholantly asked what the world costs, because I was convinced I knew everything. As I grew older and matured (in the British Army) I began asking serious questions that would never have occurred to me back home in Ireland. Of course, that's just me.

You, quite obviously, were born at 21 years of age, with a driving licence in one hand, a credit-card in the other, the total knowledge of humankind in your head and no memory of any childhood. You just knew (and have always known) everything. That's probably why you're so arrogant and summarily dismissive of others now.

MsG
 
Ah, sure! I was a17-year-old Irish "culchie" from the darkest depths of Co Waterford, ROI in the mid-1960s when I joined the British Army. I could hardly speak passable English, having only had six years of theoretical instruction at school (eight lessons per week).

However, at that age, I confidently reached into my ärsehole pocket for my wallet and noncholantly asked what the world costs, because I was convinced I knew everything. As I grew older and matured (in the British Army) I began asking serious questions that would never have occurred to me back home in Ireland. Of course, that's just me.

You, quite obviously, were born at 21 years of age, with a driving licence in one hand, a credit-card in the other, the total knowledge of humankind in your head and no memory of any childhood. You just knew (and have always known) everything. That's probably why you're so arrogant and summarily dismissive of others now.

MsG
Perhaps I was a bit more observant than you.
At the minimum age for joining up I was aware there had been two world wars, several other wars, I knew the ideas about defending freedom and democracy. I also managed to understand the wording when taking the shilling and listened to what was taught during training.

The point about you looking stupid if the conversation took place still stands. By your own admission you had a clear grasp of the ideals you questioned, yet were still present.

I hope you aren't saying being dismissive is a negative thing, especially bearing in mind your dismissive attitude about the British governments statements on the Novichock incident.
 
I guess we know who is on Pooty's current shit list then, I thought the Czech (or the Slovak) president was a bit of a pooty fan too.
Zeman is but it’s a largely ceremonial post. The Reuters article has quotes from Foreign and Defence Ministers. That’d be interesting if Zeman said yes and the UN do a CW inspection :)
 
Tell us all how you have come to the conclusion that the Russians didn't do it.
Well, let's make assumptions and look at facts
A1. (Assumption 1) Russians in FSB, GRU, other secret services are not complete idiots but rather smart guys. I describe the statement as an assumption while it is rather a fact.
F1. The chemists Ranajit Ghosh and J.F. Newman discovered the V-series nerve agents at the British firm ICI in 1952. VX nerve agent and its properties were scrutinized later in Porton Down.
A2. The Russians are able to produce VX in their laboratories.
A3. HMG and mrs.May don't lie and indeed Novichok nerve agent was used
A4. Russian political leadership ordered to kill mr.Skripal in a demonstrative way, to poison him.

Now, let's suppose that all our assumptions are correct. But there is a contradiction. In this case evil Russians would use VX that directly points to Porton Down.
So at least one of our assumptions is wrong. What one exactly?
A1? Do you really think so?
A2? Do you doubt it is impossible to produce VX in Russian secret laboratories?
A3? Why not? It is quite possible. But those who blindly believe anything sounded by HMG have to recognize that only assumption
A4 is wrong.

So making assumptions and analysing known facts (also not mentioned by me directly) we come to a conclusion that Russian political leadership did not order to kill mr.Skripal.
 
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@DaManBugs

I too was one of those Cold War Warriors but do nor recollect the scenarios you depict of being indoctrinated by the G2 world.

I was even part of that G2 world and gave briefings to people in BAOR on the situation and from memory do not ever remember peddling such a line, and certainly not on a daily basis. In fact I was party to information not available to the majority of personnel and it also did not depict such scenarios.

I would therefore conclude you may have misremembered the content of the occasional lectures you received or you were reinterpreting them to meet your own preconceived opinions.
 
Dont mock the tale of the answering back, and especially the slime officer talking of COMRADES. :)

Look on the bright side, thanks to the likes of our Irish hero doing his bit the Soviet system eventually broke down and his beloved socislism completely failed in Russia quite some time ago, and Russia now crows about it being a democratic country or democracy :)

On the downside, poor old private Ivan Ivanovich at a similar gathering on the Warsaw Pact side at the same time knew far better under his political regime than to start answering back to an intelligence officer in a gathering as he knew he didnt have the freedom of speech our Irish hero was defending on BEHALF of the British public :)
The Ivan Ivanovich I knew was a recce mec who rose to the heights of S/Sgt and his father had been Serbian... names are strange things ;)
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
A gentle reminder that bypassing the swear filter in the Serious Bit will attract points. I care not whether you’re doing it in plain or with an umlaut.

5 points per incidence.

What do 10 points make? Prizes! Going away from the site for a bit, not of your own volition.
 
Well, let's make assumptions and look at facts
A1. (Assumption 1) Russians in FSB, GRU, other secret services are not complete idiots but rather smart guys. I describe the statement as an assumption while it is rather a fact.
F1. The chemists Ranajit Ghosh and J.F. Newman discovered the V-series nerve agents at the British firm ICI in 1952. VX nerve agent and its properties were scrutinized later in Porton Down.
A2. The Russians are able to produce VX in their laboratories.
A3. HMG and mrs.May don't lie and indeed Novichok nerve agent was used
A4. Russian political leadership ordered to kill mr.Skripal in a demonstrative way, to poison him.

Now, let's suppose that all our assumptions are correct. But there is a contradiction. In this case evil Russians would use VX that directly points to Porton Down.
So at least one of our assumptions is wrong. What one exactly?
A1? Do you really think so?
A2? Do you doubt it is impossible to produce VX in Russian secret laboratories?
A3? Why not? It is quite possible. But those who blindly believe anything sounded by HMG have to recognize that only assumption
A4 is wrong.

So making assumptions and analysing known facts (also not mentioned by me directly) we come to a conclusion that Russian political leadership did not order to kill mr.Skripal.
Okay, I'll play. Let's make a couple of assumptions (A) and some Facts (F):
F1. Russia is having an election today. (Obvious)
F2. The new Czar wants to be the longest serving leader since Stalin (Obvious, he's on the ballot)
F3. Putin wants a 70% turnout and 70% of those to vote for him (according to Russian state tv)
F4. Russia under the new Czar wants to regain its 'superpower' rather than a 'regional power' status (based on Putin's speeches and actions)
F5. Putin's govt is run by crooks and thieves (according to you). It's basically a mafia state.
F6. Any opposition is ruthlessly suppressed be it Nemtsov or Navalny.
F7. The Soviets invented Novichok.
F8. The 'Russia strong' message is peddled by the trolls and 'useful idiots'
F9. The West is seen as decadent.
F10. The UK is the home to many Oligarchs and to former Russians who fled Vlad.
F11. Putin has threatened to dispose of the 'traitors'
F12. Russia has massive agitprop campaigns. There are many 'useful idiots'.
F13. Russia has used numerous vetoes at the UNSC to support Assad and his use of CW (and now Iran).
F14. Four years ago, Crimea was invaded and annexed.

A1. It's all about the US (according to agitprop and your posts)
A2. The UK is the 'chief poodle' or 'client state' as Russia see's it. (obvious, emphasised by you)
A3. The UK remains a thorn in Russia's side. Not so much on conventional military might, but the SIA (particularly GCHQ) and of course it has nukes as well. Plus one of the P5.
A4. Russian meddling according to the US Int agencies in their elections, so doing anything in the US for now is verboten. (ongoing investigation)
A5. Vlad wants to send a message to get more of a turnout at the election.
A6. Vlad wants to be seen as the only person who can 'save' Russia from their (the West's) meddling (freedoms) and their views (freedom of expression, gay rights etc.)
A7. 'Colour Revolutions' frighten the pants off Putin. (having seen the collapse of the CCCP)
A8. Russia wants to send a message (emphasise) to their populace, that the West is out to get them.
A9. Instead of the US, the 'chief poodle' will do for any 'lesson' to be made..
A10. Vlad wants less people prepared to betray the Russia he wants to be in charge of.
A11. If a lesson is to be made, it needs to be pinned down to Russia but can be conveniently denied, obfuscated and 'whataboutery'ed' (nod and a wink, but denied)
A12. Russia doesn't care about collateral damage be it Russian citizens or bystanders (Ukraine and Syria)

All of the above neither contradict anything nor any of the assumptions, let alone the facts. Possibly A8 & 9 assumptions can be queried. Bearing in mind facts 1 to 5 and 8 to 10, it's still a strong possibility. A11, high probability.

Anything to add?
 
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@DaManBugs

I too was one of those Cold War Warriors but do nor recollect the scenarios you depict of being indoctrinated by the G2 world.

I was even part of that G2 world and gave briefings to people in BAOR on the situation and from memory do not ever remember peddling such a line, and certainly not on a daily basis. In fact I was party to information not available to the majority of personnel and it also did not depict such scenarios.

I would therefore conclude you may have misremembered the content of the occasional lectures you received or you were reinterpreting them to meet your own preconceived opinions.
Almost politician like in your wording.
It's OK to call Bugsy a liar on this site.
 
Many thanks for your variable contribution, Murphy's_Whore! I appreciate your (very reluctant) appreciation of me. Indeed I do!:smile::smile::smile: It's clear to me the "ba'man" courage it takes to admit that someone is clearly better, superior, but you've managed it, boog. Well done!

I'm aware that I'm not "in the know" with regard to the investigation, but I also know that you're a total ghunt, Murphy's_Whore, who's totally uninterested in the subject at hand, but far more interested in "proving" that you're allegedly "superior" to me.

So why don't you start a thread on that very subject, Murphy's_Whore?, instead of constantly derailing really interesting threads just to prove (entirely to yourself, of course) that you're "better" than me?

I fückin dare you, you cünt!!!

MsG
What's the matter with you? Slinging out stupid, childish ad homs is not a generally recognised method of discussion. Although it's probably the only one you know. Which would explain why you've no friends.:smile::smile::smile:

MsG
:rolleyes:
 
Reported on Sky (no link yet), OPCW due to arrive on Monday.
 
Reported on Sky (no link yet), OPCW due to arrive on Monday.
Professor Oleg Smirnhof (KGB FSB and BAR) head of the OCPW said he was very much looking forward to visiting Porton Down as it was somewhere of great interest to him!
 
Pretty obvious to me at least that Nerve Agent was used precisely to mark it as a Russian job since the Russians want to make a statement. Might be related to the banjoing of 200 odd contractors by the US in Syria? Anyway, the real statement will come after the football, same as the Crimea annexation followed Sochi.
 
Pretty obvious to me at least that Nerve Agent was used precisely to mark it as a Russian job since the Russians want to make a statement. Might be related to the banjoing of 200 odd contractors by the US in Syria? Anyway, the real statement will come after the football, same as the Crimea annexation followed Sochi.
My moneys on some serious mischief making in the Baltic states.
 
I'm eagerly awaiting the results of the Russian election.
For a year now the Labour party has been severely critisicing Donald Trump and calling him all sorts of nasty names.
I'm waiting to see if they are just as vocal in their condemnation of whoever gets elected in Russia*

*As it's an 'election' lets just wait on the final result, I don't want any 'tortoise and hare' presumptions :)
 

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