News story: Novichok nerve agent use in Salisbury: UK government response

@184461

Do you think the Skripals have been killed? You seem to be dropping heavy hints all the time. What are your thoughts on the alleged statement that they haven't been seen for a year*

*They will have been seen by someone , possibly including each other.
 

184461

*Russian Troll*
You sure about that very high dose and inhalation?
“In the four months since the Skripals and Nick Bailey were poisoned, no other people besides Dawn and Charlie have presented with symptoms. Their reaction is so severe it resulted in Dawn’s death and Charlie being critically ill. This means they must have got a high dose. Our hypothesis is they must have handled the container we are now seeking.”
Novichok in Wiltshire death 'highly likely' from batch used on Skripals

It is understood Ms Sturgess was exposed to at least 10 times the amount of nerve agent the Skripals came into contact with.
UK police 'know who carried out Skripal poisoning', with multiple Russian suspects identified

If she had 10X the amount....

"It had an oily substance (absorption) and I smelt it (inhalation) and it didn't smell of perfume. It felt oily (absorption), so I washed it off really quick but I didn't think anything of it. It all happened so quick," he said.

He, logically, also rx'd a good dosing of WMD.
Considering a snowflake's-weight/ quarter pinhead's size is supposed to kill you.

Made up bullshit
You didn't know Dawn, you don't know what substances she has used.
She was killed by Novochock
Based on what absolute evidence?
Do you believe it because the nice men from gov/media told you??

Based on what absolute evidence?
 

184461

*Russian Troll*
Suppresed heart rate , Removal of cough reflex. Things like that. Cocaine overdose for example. Naloxone is also used. At no time did I say it wasn't. Naloxone would be appropriate for Fentanyl, I agree.

Give me the evidence that the emergency responders thought it was fentanyl rather than giving symptomatic treatment , e.g. Atropine. They may have given both . It is often unwise to give specific treatment at first response unless you are sure because it may be the wrong treatment.

One treats symptoms in the first instance.


It is carried for symptomatic treatment, e.g. hyperstimulation of pupil contraction, suppression of the vagus nerver leading to Bradycardia and so on. It happens to have a emergency effect on nerve agents of the permanent inhibitor type of acetylcholine esterase. It will be carried in the future and now for NA exposure. Unless certain, treatment will still be symptomatic



No. I think he was unaware of the specific formulation as considered by OPCW and the titre of agent within its carrier. As I am and as you are because it is not in your or my interest to know it before a trial.

For once, you made a valid point. Try and keep it up. I will not cover the rest because you reverted to cut and paste and your usual rehashed arguments.
Funnily enough the unedited FPOS/paramedic report from that day hasn't been made public so we don't know what the first meds/ treatment given were...doubtful it would have been something that counters opioid OD's along with NA poisoning though eh?(but after almost 8hrs with a military-grade, highly-pure NA running rampant on their CNS it was s surprise they were still alive at that point).

A bit like the iron-clad evidence.

From 9 days after the event....yet we're all still here waiting to see it.

'Errr, there is proof of Russian involvement......this is a Russian-made weapons grade NA made in a laboratory in Moscow which has now been confirmed by British int and ratified by American and French......and so on'

 
“In the four months since the Skripals and Nick Bailey were poisoned, no other people besides Dawn and Charlie have presented with symptoms. Their reaction is so severe it resulted in Dawn’s death and Charlie being critically ill. This means they must have got a high dose. Our hypothesis is they must have handled the container we are now seeking.”
Novichok in Wiltshire death 'highly likely' from batch used on Skripals
Yes - he got direct contact, he was very ill and in a coma
Not the inhalation level you were inferring earlier, and not all over him as you like to keep bringing up
(And you're now accepting that he was affected by Novichock?)

It is understood Ms Sturgess was exposed to at least 10 times the amount of nerve agent the Skripals came into contact with.
UK police 'know who carried out Skripal poisoning', with multiple Russian suspects identified

If she had 10X the amount....

"It had an oily substance (absorption) and I smelt it (inhalation) and it didn't smell of perfume. It felt oily (absorption), so I washed it off really quick but I didn't think anything of it. It all happened so quick," he said.

He, logically, also rx'd a good dosing of WMD.
Its not logical to go from Dawn using the 'perfume' to him also receiving a similar amount.

Considering a snowflake's-weight/ quarter pinhead's size is supposed to kill you.


Based on what absolute evidence?
Do you believe it because the nice men from gov/media told you??
Based on what evidence do you claim Dawn had a class A overdose?
Remember that I personally knew Dawn, I know that she has taken various substances in her life, I also know she was an alcoholic.
And the nice man in the inquest told me Novichock was in her blood

Based on what absolute evidence?
Based on words coming out of Yulias mouth
 

184461

*Russian Troll*
(And you're now accepting that he was affected by Novichock?)
Nope.
He had the same stuff she did.

Warning to city drug users

A Nerve Agent 5-8X VX would have killed him in no time after spilling it on his hands and breathing it in.
His flat would definitely not be back on the council's rental list either.
Why aren't we seeing this?

1550278149990.png


And why did we see this....before it was rapidly deleted?

1550278243026.png




Logical, eh?

And the nice man in the inquest told me Novichock was in her blood
Hasn't the inquest been postponed again for a 2nd time?
If the inquest report hasn't happened yet how can you be so sure?

Based on words coming out of Yulias mouth
Allegedly yes so it's a surprise he hasn't been in comms with his mum for the complete duration.
Almost a year.

Salisbury poisoning victim Sergei Skripal's distraught mum, 90, breaks silence revealing desperation to fly to UK to 'hold him in my arms'
 
Nope.
He had the same stuff she did.

Warning to city drug users

A Nerve Agent 5-8X VX would have killed him in no time after spilling it on his hands and breathing it in.
His flat would definitely not be back on the council's rental list either.
Why aren't we seeing this?


View attachment 378052
Because the specialists have been in, done their stuff and they aren't dismantling the roof

And why did we see this....before it was rapidly deleted?

View attachment 378053
Because the decontamination unit came out (as almost routine for the current situation in the area), Dawns condition was attributed to drugs and the decontamination unit left. Then it turned out not to be drugs

Logical, eh?


Hasn't the inquest been postponed again for a 2nd time?
No, the 2nd inquest hearing has been postponed for the 1st time

If the inquest report hasn't happened yet how can you be so sure?
They have of course had one hearing so far

Allegedly yes so it's a surprise he hasn't been in comms with his mum for the complete duration.
Almost a year.

Salisbury poisoning victim Sergei Skripal's distraught mum, 90, breaks silence revealing desperation to fly to UK to 'hold him in my arms'
 
@184461

These issues have been addressed. Why do you persist in constantly repeating yourself

It makes me believe that you do not want a true answer. You merely want it not to be Russia and want it to be the UK.

I will ask you again, why do you hate the Uk.

I look forward to more of the same.

And yes, the ambulance crew's report will not be released. You know why?

...doubtful it would have been something that counters opioid OD's along with NA poisoning though eh?(
Why not? Atropine as symptomatic treatment, Nap to occupy opioid receptors in case. These receptors are present at synaptic endings. You are missing the point of all this in that the job of the paramedics is to stabilise. The intent is to get them to hospital in one piece or a few depending on the circumstances. They will go for symptomatic treatment and such ideas as maintaining blood volume. Multiple agents can be used and multiple procedures.

What are your qualifications in pharmacology and how many casualties have you seen. As an ex Canadian soldier, you must have seen a few in Afghanistan and watched the paramedics do their stuff.
 
"It had an oily substance (absorption) and I smelt it (inhalation) and it didn't smell of perfume. It felt oily (absorption), so I washed it off really quick but I didn't think anything of it. It all happened so quick," he said.

Did Mr. Rowley say all of that. An oily sensation on the skin may imply absorption. It may also imply a soaping effect on the keratinised cells at the top layer of skin. This would be consistent with a Hydroxide carrier system. Alternatively, it could be just a non absorbing oil pooling on the surface of the skin.

If you make statements, they must be credible in their entirety.

Whilst I am sure I have said this before, inhalation would not necessarily mean the NA was inhaled. Might be a carrier. We would have to know the different vapour pressures of the carrier and agent. As you may know, the effect of chemical biological agents is related to aerosol effect in the case of a liquid or limiting particle size to a few hundred microns if a solid .

If you start to research these things in detail, theoretically, you may develop a different view of this incident. However, I get the impression you are a general conspiracist who sees collusion in every event.

Of course, you may just be being paid or a naturalised Russian patriot.
 
Doesn't seem like @184461 has heard of Andrei Zheleznyakov either. Well, he probably has, but because it blows apart a large part of his version of events, he's probably conveniently ignoring it.
Google is your friend. If I was him, I'd take advantage of it, not surprisingly, it's the only friend he's got.
The OPCW have got it right, so there's another large part of his version of events blown apart.
Doesn't leave much does it?
 
Doesn't seem like @184461 has heard of Andrei Zheleznyakov either. Well, he probably has, but because it blows apart a large part of his version of events, he's probably conveniently ignoring it.
Google is your friend. If I was him, I'd take advantage of it, not surprisingly, it's the only friend he's got.
The OPCW have got it right, so there's another large part of his version of events blown apart.
Doesn't leave much does it?
While he tries to pretend UK law doesn't actually prevent any case details being released, and while he won't admit that he is spectacularly wrong when he says water isn't used to decontaminate there was also another of his idiotic offerings I was reminded of today.

I remembered him posting up how much Dawn's house would have cost to buy as though it was part of a flaw in what happened, of course, those with even the tiniest understanding of the reality of the situation saw that yet again he was making a fool of himself.

He of course later made similar stupid statements about the decontamination of the houses involved.
 
Did any of you see Putin mincing around a judo mat on the TV news earlier?

While we in the UK happily and openly criticise our political leaders I couldn't help noticing that the part of Putin's appearance where he was thrown to the floor by a younger opponent* didn't get to be shown on Russian TV.
h
*A perfectly natural occurrence, but obviously not in the land of lies that is Russia.
Yes, I saw that, he rolls like an old man and his "opponents" projected enough sycophantic skill that I openly laughed. Obviously got the monkeys from the same school ours went to.
 
While he tries to pretend UK law doesn't actually prevent any case details being released, and while he won't admit that he is spectacularly wrong when he says water isn't used to decontaminate there was also another of his idiotic offerings I was reminded of today.

I remembered him posting up how much Dawn's house would have cost to buy as though it was part of a flaw in what happened, of course, those with even the tiniest understanding of the reality of the situation saw that yet again he was making a fool of himself.

He of course later made similar stupid statements about the decontamination of the houses involved.
Is it just coincidence how words such as idiotic, stupid & fool crop up when his posts are discussed? The stupid, idiotic, fool.
 
The trolls are not a good advert for the success of Russian agitprop.

The was a time when the KGB chap was semi successful until he was rumbled. Now, even that account is mainly occupied by the arrogant and the bluffers.

Products of the nation that would destroy the West. It is even more funny since KGB had a Damascene conversion and regularly coughs to Russian complicity. Probably get him into a Russian heaven.

Well, I for one am quaking in my boots
 
Again:
What would the public release oftown centre cctv do to change the current situation?
They could dramatically change the picture of the poisoning. As the authorities are very economical with truth and with information, then exact timeline of the events is unknown. For example when exactly the Skripals were seen in healthy state the last time? When exactly did they reach the bench? What items or surfaces did they touch? Whom did they meet? What people were in close proximity to the Skripals after they left Zizzi restaurant?
What would the release of any more footage of the two tourists do other than to confirm to the guilty what does exist so they can work out what they could ‘credibly’ claim in alibis? Even though they don’t mind coming up with stories that have already been contradicted by released footage
There is a logical question in this context. If some photos and videos were released in public domain then why not to release everything available - of course with exact timestamps. So general public would be able to estimate - could the pair even in theory approach to the Skripals house or not?
 
They could dramatically change the picture of the poisoning. As the authorities are very economical with truth and with information, then exact timeline of the events is unknown. For example when exactly the Skripals were seen in healthy state the last time? When exactly did they reach the bench? What items or surfaces did they touch? Whom did they meet? What people were in close proximity to the Skripals after they left Zizzi restaurant?

There is a logical question in this context. If some photos and videos were released in public domain then why not to release everything available - of course with exact timestamps. So general public would be able to estimate - could the pair even in theory approach to the Skripals house or not?
You can't change dead kids & their mothers into live ones after the bus they're on has been shredded by shrapnel from Russian supplied rocket artillery, or make a civilian airliner keep flying after a BUK or Russian fighter has blown it to pieces.
 
They could dramatically change the picture of the poisoning. As the authorities are very economical with truth and with information, then exact timeline of the events is unknown. For example when exactly the Skripals were seen in healthy state the last time? When exactly did they reach the bench? What items or surfaces did they touch? Whom did they meet? What people were in close proximity to the Skripals after they left Zizzi restaurant?

There is a logical question in this context. If some photos and videos were released in public domain then why not to release everything available - of course with exact timestamps. So general public would be able to estimate - could the pair even in theory approach to the Skripals house or not?
It’s not for the general public to estimate these things, it’s for 12 members of the public to assess them
 

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