New warship is quantum leap forward for the Navy

#1
New warship is 'quantum leap forward' for the Navy
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 02/02/2006)

The most powerful frontline warship since the Second World War was launched by the Countess of Wessex yesterday, marking a resurgence of British naval ship building.


The first Type 45 destroyer is launched yesterday
The first of Britain's new Type 45 destroyers took to the waters of the Clyde as the world's most advanced air defence ship.

Daring will be able to track and destroy a target the size of a cricket ball travelling at more than three times the speed of sound, a "quantum leap forward in the Navy's capabilities", according the Royal Navy.

The boat's defensive system, combining a hugely powerful radar and missile system, has left American visitors to the yard "shaken and shocked", according to BAE Systems, its builders.

The destroyer's launch was watched by a crowd of 11,000 and hundreds of Daring's Glaswegian shipbuilders.

In the next 10 years, as many as eight T45s could be built at a cost of £650 million each. Also to be commissioned are two large aircraft carriers (£3.5 billion), four Astute class hunter killer submarines (£3 billion) and a fleet of up to 14 auxiliary ships (£3.5 billion).

Daring will be fitted with its radar and missile systems before its sea trials in early 2007. Its Samson radar, from its current location in Portsmouth, can monitor all take offs and landings from every major European airport.
john
 
#2
Not as shaken and shocked as the initial joiners will be, if my past experience of BAE/Yarrows workmanship is anything to go by...
 
#4
Sounds like the England Cricket team could trial it in India shortly as Ashley Giles gets tw*ted for another 6!!
 
#5
In the next 10 years, as many as eight T45s could be built at a cost of £650 million each. Also to be commissioned are two large aircraft carriers (£3.5 billion), four Astute class hunter killer submarines (£3 billion) and a fleet of up to 14 auxiliary ships (£3.5 billion).
.........and the Band of HM Royal Marines played 'Believe It If You Like'

I note the qualifiers 'as many as' and 'up to'. Up to 14 Auxiliaries?! Shock! I'm yet to be convinced that the 'large' aircraft carriers will ever enter service. Within ten years is fanciful though I suspect the journo doesn't understand the difference between 'built' and 'commissioned'.

The most powerful frontline warship since the Second World War was launched by the Countess of Wessex yesterday, marking a resurgence of British naval ship building.
Daring hasn't got its weapons fit yet nor can it move under its own power so how 'powerful'? At the moment it is a very expensive barge. I will refer to it as 'she' when it is completed and in commission.
 
#6
As a non-seaman (a quiet punt on a canal is quite fine though), can I ask (out of ignorance of Naval matters):

1. Is it compartmentalised unlike the assault ships which of course will only go to unopposed areas, so perhaps ought to be called ferries?
2. This radar thingymajig. Are there going to be any spares? From how far away can a plane or boat launch a missile at it, further than Heathrow, Gatwick and of course Stanstead? In layman's terms, surely the limiting factor on a radar (apart from a lack of watts) is the horizon/curveature of the earth, so getting one to see a long way is a matter of how far above the ground/sea they are.
3. These missile things. Do they actually work? if so why do air defence ships still get photographed with GPMGs bungeed to railings (or are these old 'stock' shots)?
4. Any defence against submarines?
5. Aren't air defence boats 'good' at stopping things aimed at them rather than at some other ship nearby? Or have we taken the next step?
6. What is their role/utility? To sit next to carriers and smite offending things from the sky?

I actually don't know, but am curious. Thanks in advance for any assistance in furthering my clearly appalling education.

GH
 

LIMA

Old-Salt
#7
Has it got Wheels or Tracks??...How is it gonna sail in the Sandpit or the Mountains of Afghanifuckedupstan.

Maybe 2000 Camels would have been a better Investment
 
#8
I think its because it can fire on several different targets all at the same time, and I think its going to have lots of missiles that travel 2000 miles inland or so some navy fan told me.
 
#9
LIMA said:
Maybe 2000 Camels would have been a better Investment
I thought the H&S Bde were going for smoke-free work environments?
 
#10
2000 miles inland? We fcuking wish. Hopefully, they'll decide at some stage to install a TLAM capability. The first of class always has problems and is usually quite different as it progresses along. The Sampson radar and Aster missile system, if they work to their fullest ability, will be an outstanding piece of kit.
Lima, there is more to the RN than deep water ops. We're contributing to several vital things in MND(SE)'s AOR for instance. No need to be landcentric in order to have an effect in Tony's quest to appease his puppetmaster dubya. The RN has never been as busy as now and I cannot honestly seeing the tempo letting up. These ships are desperately needed. The 12 we originally wanted would be better than the 8 we're getting. With all the current ops that the RN are involved in, a minimum of 30 frigates/destroyers is needed in order to keep up the tempo. But we don't have that amount....
 
#11
Point taken Matelot...Wasn´t meant as a Dig at the Navy...more a Tongue in Cheek comment..
:)
 
#13
LIMA said:
Point taken Matelot...Wasn´t meant as a Dig at the Navy...more a Tongue in Cheek comment..
:)
Just because I am in the navy doesn't mean I want your tongue anywhere near my cheeks!
 
#14
It would appear that the New type 45 Destroyers are going to be more of a liability than an asset, yes they have chargers for the sailors i pods but the armament is some thing else. It would appear that the Government is buying all the equipment for this form European contractors which will cost twice as much for fewer systems. It would appear that we are spending a billion on a French missile system when a better one could have purchased from the states for £350 million. The Anti Aircraft missiles will also be French and it is reckoned that it is costing the British Tax Payer an extra 2 Billion pounds to to support the French Defence industries. Now our leaders have kept that very quite
 
#16
Not in the navy (yet!) but looked into some of this as I'm in the process of joining. Well didn't want to get caught out in the interview did I!

I think the main problem with the Type 42s which are the air defence ships we have now, is that their radars can only guide missiles onto a certain number of targets at a time. And they only have 2 Seadart missiles on deck at a time, whereas the 45s will have silos firing vertically, so could fire their full load of missiles at the same time if they needed to!

Basically 42s = limited no. of targets at a time. 45s = loadsa targets at a time. Apparently this lets less ships do the same job, hence only 8 new ones to replace the 12 old ones, but guess that might just be the budget for you!

45s should be better able to keep up with the carriers (bigger, heavier ship = better seakeeping in heavy weather), the height the radar needed to be to give it a certain range dictated how big the ship needs to be, and the Aster missile is meant to be damned Gucci (sideways thrusters like you see on astronauts suits in the films so it can hit incoming missile/aeroplane).

BUT there are meant to be too few missiles carried for that size of ship, apparently the Americans cram hundreds of missiles into ships just a bit bigger, and we are getting 40-something in ours. Also, they will be "fitted for, but not with" Tomahawk and Harpoon, so they'll be lucky to ever see them then! Although with their helicopter, 4.5 gun, torpedo tubes, and Phalanx and short range guns, and a RM det, they should be flexible enough to do the general purpose warship role as well as shoot down aircraft specifically.

Hope that helps but as I'm still a layman any matelots here feel free to shoot me down!
 
#17
Hobo seems nosey,

All warships are compartmentalised, even LPDs. Some compartments are necessarily bigger than others. Spares? The radar is already in service IIRC with the Cloggy and German Navies so spares shouldn’t be an issue. However…

There is a paper on PAAMS in the Journal of Naval Engineering that runs to over 40 pages and it’s heavy going.. Written by a Professor chap on BAe’s staff and it was classified when first published in the JNE so even if I understood it all…you get my drift hobo?

The RN have been wrong about the air threat before (Force Z) and PAAMS will only be any good as an air defence system while the ammo lasts (my humble opinion). Then man the GPMGs.

Gook, the biggest problem with the Type 42s is that they are old. Not in the Mob yet? Looks like you’ve been taking instruction in the lingo. I think you’re 'fitted for but not with' yourself. :wink: Good luck with the interview. If the carriers ever get built, I think they’ll be they’ll be slightly faster than the Type 45.

Perhaps the up to 14 new auxiliaries mentioned in the press report (release) are to be warships on the cheap (force multipliers). When HMS Cumberland came home last year one of the RFA’s Wave Class effectively become Windies Guard Ship. Helo, an RM detachment or some Spam coasties with RIBs and drug smugglers get the good news from warry looking oil tanker. More money saved to spend on New Labour priorities.
 
#18
Hasn't John Reid been quoted as saying that he's considering extending the procurement contract to a full ten, if the price is right and if Daring performs to expectation?

Those extra two would go a long way, given their supposed extra availability and reduced refit times.
 
#19
Chalky said:
Hasn't John Reid been quoted as saying that he's considering extending the procurement contract to a full ten, if the price is right and if Daring performs to expectation?

Those extra two would go a long way, given their supposed extra availability and reduced refit times.
So far they have only signed for the first 3 ships. The contract for the next batch is still to be signed. The RN would like to get another 5, but if the price isn't right then they'll only order another 3.

The final number is going to be either 6 or 8, not 10. Originally there were supposed to be 12. No matter how good a new piece of kit is, it can still only be in one place at a time.

Less is always going to be less, no amount of spin can change that.
 
#20
Ipod charging points? Yup we're getting sh1tloads of them. They're called powersockets......:roll:
 

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