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New Vehicles

#1
Back in the day, when it was all black and white, awaiting the communist hordes that would overwhelm us, along side some state of the art kit, we used to be burdened with kit that was shoite.
I thought that we had moved on from there,(Although the pinzgaeur and viking had me wondering if they were procured because of jobs for 'The Boys')


I saw this tonight



(EDITOR’S NOTE: Given the number of British soldiers that have been killed by improvised explosive devices while riding in unprotected vehicles, the procurement of modified dune buggies to support operations in Afghanistan is more than a little puzzling. The photograph above shows all too clearly the amount of protection available to the vehicle’s crew. Indeed, on its face this announcement resembles more a belated April’s Fool joke than a responsible ministerial procurement decision.)
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...army-orders-dune-buggies-for-afghanistan.html


Derbyshire-based Enhanced Protection Systems Ltd (EPS) has been awarded a £7M contract to supply around 75 Springer vehicles.

http://nds.coi.gov.uk/content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=398336&NewsAreaID=2


Thats a fair old wedge for a sandbuggy. I built a go-cart for less than 100DM, which all this appears to be.
I must admit I would probably struggle to produce 75 in my garage, but even if they were late they would come in under budget.

Does anyone know if any former government ministers just happen to be members of the board?
 
#2
The Pinz was/is a fine wagon far superior to the L/R HS(Wolf), granted the Vector(coffin) is an embarresment and I think I would have felt safer in a cardboard box full of AP mines than in the front of one of those.

The Viking initially was well received and certainly would be a better option than the BV, having been involved in the recovery of several fucked up Vikings I can see where the criticism comes from.

Unfortunately the sad reality remains there is no perfect vehicle.

With both the Vector and the Mastiff we are guilty of taking a serviceable vehicle and lumping on too much armour without due thought to the suspension and whether it is up to taking the extra weight.
 
#3
The difference between the vector and the Mastiff, is in one vehicle the driver and commander don't sit above the roadwheels ,it is half as cheap, has a V shaped hull, and if it is unfortunate enough to suffer a strike, the occupants will get away with dirty underpants.
I worked on BV's for 4 years, and had high hopes for the Viking, sadly, they didn't live up to expectations.
What I was trying to point out was the high cost of these unarmoured dune buggies.It's a joke, and when lives are on the line, some minister/former minister will have had a say in this.
Bet he has a decent pension though.
 
#5
With no apparent sarcasm, Britain’s Ministry of Defence says the Springer ATV “demonstrates that we’re continuing to invest in vehicles for the front line.” (UK MoD photo



[url]http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/104477/british-army-orders-dune-buggies-for-afghanistan.html#[/url]

You are probably right
 
#7
i think we can all be fairly sure this will be the wagon of choice for driving the general round to inspect the troops?

either that, or somebody's decided that there are too few recreational facilities in Afghanistan, and we need to build golf courses on the large areas of open sand. the lads can walk around providing they take metal detectors, but the officers of course will require Golf Buggys.... and one can only assume this is it!

at the very least it looks like jolly good fun for a race...
 
#8
Having spoken to those invovled in vehicle procurement, I'm very impressed with what they have done with Mastiff onwards. They don't procure crap stuff for no reason - are we all sure there isn't a niche role for it?

Pintz are some of the best 4WD vehicles in the world too - much better than what they replaced.
 
#10
EX_STAB said:
What does it do that an ordinary Land Rover 90 doesn't do? It can't weigh much less.
Ah, "Combat load of 1 tonne" apparently. Hmmmmm............ Cross country? Doubt it'll do it for long.

For desert use it's got completely wrong tyres before we even look at the rest of it.

Oh Christ it's this with a sand paint job:
http://www.thetomcar.co.uk/tm5.html

"Payload up to 1433lbs" not kg. You have to adjust the rear suspension with the onboard compressor. when you've loaded it. Impractical in an agricultural environment let alone on a landing site.

Have they really hung a load of crap off that AND managed to double the payload rating by putting wider rear wheels on it? The standard passenger models have a payload of 200kg. I can believe that they've got that up to 500kg for the agricultural model but 1000kg? I can't see it. They'll have just welded stiffening into the frame, upping the unladen weight rather than designing a new platform.

The basic two seater model here: http://www.thetomcar.co.uk/tm2.html
starts from "£11,000" So we're buying a version for ten times the base cost.

If this thing turns out to be anything other than a disaster that breaks down regularly I'll be stunned.
 
#12
I'll give those lights on the front 10 minutes. Maybe that's what the associated spares are, 10 pairs of front lights?

All it needs is a smiley face painted on the front :roll:
 
#14
tropper66 said:
You could pick up a better load cerrying 4x4 at any farm show for a hell of a lot less, another over priced piece of crap
From JCB:

Payload of 500kg. OK, that's half of what is claimed for the Springer but I think some child at the MoD press office can't tell the difference between pounds and kg.

Does the Springer really have a 30% more payload than an old Long Wheel Base Land-Rover?
 
#15
Alot of expert opinions on here.

Perhaps you could argue this with the boys from the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who tested it to meet the needs of the boys in the sandbox?

It's not a patrol vehicle, or a WMIK - it's just a very big bergen for the Platoon Sgt for use on dismounted ops.
 
#17
Gassing_Badgers said:
Alot of expert opinions on here.

Perhaps you could argue this with the boys from the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who tested it to meet the needs of the boys in the sandbox?

It's not a patrol vehicle, or a WMIK - it's just a very big bergen for the Platoon Sgt for use on dismounted ops.
Some of us have T&D experiance and know that the kit given to test is not always the best on the market or value for money. I remember wasting weeks f****** about with gear that was proved crap in the first ten minutes
 
#18
It's a 'mule', designed to offload the 70-odd Kg that the lads are currently carrying.

Are we honestly saying that this is less sensible than the idiotic robotic version that the US is developing?



Cue more ignorant gobshite from Richard North and co.
 
#19
Gassing_Badgers said:
Alot of expert opinions on here.

Perhaps you could argue this with the boys from the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who tested it to meet the needs of the boys in the sandbox?

It's not a patrol vehicle, or a WMIK - it's just a very big bergen for the Platoon Sgt for use on dismounted ops.
You go there before me GB. As we all know, Quads have been used for ages and there has been no "what were they thinking..." posts on here about them. But Quads dont carry much in their present form, even with trailer. Springer is an evolution of the Quad to enable stores etc to be brought forward. Like GB said, plenty of experts again, fonts of all knowledge!
 
#20
CH512O said:
Gassing_Badgers said:
Alot of expert opinions on here.

Perhaps you could argue this with the boys from the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who tested it to meet the needs of the boys in the sandbox?

It's not a patrol vehicle, or a WMIK - it's just a very big bergen for the Platoon Sgt for use on dismounted ops.
You go there before me GB. As we all know, Quads have been used for ages and there has been no "what were they thinking..." posts on here about them. But Quads dont carry much in their present form, even with trailer. Springer is an evolution of the Quad to enable stores etc to be brought forward. Like GB said, plenty of experts again, fonts of all knowledge!
All very good but £7 million for 75 Vehicles, Is this really value for money
 

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