New piece of kit for 120mm.

Discussion in 'RAC' started by Ronin(GE), Jun 19, 2011.

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  1. Hope our MoD will by the stuff.
    120 HE-frag in airburst mode can ruin terries day :nod:

    Just a quick copy'n'paste from
    Neue HE DM11 | Verteidigungspolitik und Sicherheitspoltik -
    (english text below the german)

    Rheinmetall unveils new HE DM1
    Secondary ammunition for MBT 120mm smoothbore gun

    Rheinmetall recently revealed a new 120m HE round to a group of international experts at its proving ground in Unterlüß, Germany. It can be fired from any in-service 120mm smoothbore gun (L44 and L55). Dubbed the DM11, the new ammunition was developed on behalf of the German Ministry of Defence. It enables main battle tanks to respond more effectively to a variety of contemporary threats. The round has already been fielded by the US Marine Corp, which refers to it as the Multipurpose (MP) DM11. The Marines use it primarily for engaging non-armoured and lightly armoured targets in asymmetric encounters. Its long range makes a significant contribution to protecting friendly forces from attack by enemy combatants armed with short- and medium-range weapons.

    From the technical standpoint, the HE DM11 stands out in two ways: it is programmable when loaded and features an airburst detonation capability. Modularly designed, the 120mm x 570 HE Temp DM11 consists of an IHE (Insensitive High Explosive) warhead with a programmable fuse and ballistic cap, a tail unit, driving band, a combustible case with a propelling charge, a newly designed stub case with primer and an integrated data link cable for programming.

    Interfaces between the propulsion system and the warhead and between the propulsion system and the fuse ensure that the propulsion system can be exchanged once its service life expires; it will also be possible to exchange the fuse in future at reasonable cost. A further unique feature of the DM11 is that it safe to fire in all climate zones (-46oC to + 71oC).
    The HE DM11 is principally used for engaging non-armoured and lightly armoured vehicles, antitank positions (both dug-in and in the open) and field fortifications. Furthermore, it can be employed – thanks in part to its high precision and long range – for penetrating walls and taking out targets in buildings, as well as for creating breaches and avenues of approach in built-up areas to support dismounted troops.
    To enable optimum exploitation of the new ammunition’s full tactical potential, it features three different fuse modes:

    o Impact fuse mode/point detonation: the warhead detonates when it hits the target surface, creating a large breach;

    o Programmable delay/point detonation with delay: the warhead detonates after penetrating the target;

    o Programmable airburst mode: here, at ranges of up to 5,000 metres, the warhead detonates in front of, or above, the selected target.

    Easy-to-add programming kit

    A further design imperative was the ability to program the ammunition without altering the fire control unit. (In the Leopard 2A4, most of these are still analogue; in subsequent versions of the vehicle they are already partly digital.) This ensures that the ammunition can be fired from any Leopard 2 tank gun. In addition, the necessary programming kit – developed by Rheinmetall at its own expense – had to be easily installable in existing tanks, with the need for new components, special tools or testing equipment kept to a minimum. After all, it was important for the crew to be able to engage targets without having to change wellrehearsed operating procedures.

    To make sure that the ammunition and programming kit could be used in other MBT with the same main armament, the developers adhered to the internationally agreed interface control documents for 120mm tank main armament. The programming kit comprises an ammunition communication module (ACM) for programming the fuses; an interface box between the ACM and the fire control unit that generates all relevant data for the ACM; and an add-on control box/ACM for the gunner/loader control console. The kit can be retrofitted into existing systems without major modification.
  2. How will this spoil "terry's day". There is zero chance of is getting anything that fires this out there.
  3. Also it is for smoothbore... the CR2 is fitted with a 120mm Rifle.
  4. A lot of rubbish in the responses here.

    Both Abrams and Leo 2 are deployed in southern Afg at the moment, both could fire this round. The reasons CR2 is not deployed are largely political rather than due to lack of requirement. Most notably deploying it sends the wrong message when you are trying to persuade people that the campaign is ramping down. This is of course in addition to the financial cost and the hit against the manpower cap that would be incurred by sending it (and the supporting infra).

    The CR2 fleet is not being sold or parked up in it's entirety. With the end of HERRICK firmly in sight, we are once again looking to future operations, which may well involve tanks and combined arms manoeuvre. Despite the stated intent to go for a less interventionist approach, Libya has demonstrated that this is probably never again going to be a realistic option.

    Ignore tanks and more importantly the wider capacity to conduct CAM at your peril, I would suggest.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. So your saying the MoD will buy it for the Danes to fire?

    The challys will be heading to new owners. Mainly for weekend use.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. The MOD that the original poster refers to is the German one, not ours.

    Ah yes; the TA being responsible for combined arms manoeuvre, pull the other one.
  7. In that case I stand by my original point, little chance of the Germans spoiling Terry's day, even if they are issued with it.

    And I never said our TA brethren would be any good at it.
  8. So, whats your point here?

    I case you want to highlight that our government is kind of reluctant to send the right tools(and allow their use)...agreed.
  9. Ironrations, Fair one!

    Of course this whole piece naturally leads onto CR2 CSP / CLIP, rifled vs smooth-bore and wouldn't it be great if we could buy different natures off the shelf. The possibilities are nearly endless, no more being constrained to just HESH, Fin and Smoke; we could have HEAT, Canister, HE-Frag and an assortment of different fuses just for starters, without having to foot all of the R&D and ammo certification costs.
  10. Well, if its the aim to stick with the rifled gun, it should not be too hard to implement something like that on the CR2 (??)
    Given that your tank is known for its long range precicion, HE ammo (with flexible fuse setting) would be realy powerful.

    Stupid question: you still have R&D running on tank ammo?
  11. The problem is that developing and certifying new ammunition types is very expensive. It is worth it for a round that you can subsequently sell on to lots of nations who use the same gun (or at least ammo specification) as you, because you can cover the costs with the profits made from lots of your rounds being fired. Unfortunately (as far as I'm aware) the UK is the only nation using that gun/ammo specification. As the UK does not fire a huge number of operational rounds (at least by commercial standards) any company who developed these natures could not hope to cover the costs by selling lots of them. That means if we want something new, the development cost will come from the tax payer and there is virtually no hope of the government recouping those costs through overseas sales.

    Serves us right for going for the rifled gun to start with. Interestingly this was in part down to trying to drive down costs by continuing to use HESH (as fired by CR1 and Chieftain), because we thought it was a good round and not wanting to spend money on our CSS systems to enable them to handle 1 part ammo. Short sighted, but so be it; CR2 remains a very competent platform, despite our inability to access new ammo natures.
  12. elovabloke

    elovabloke LE Moderator

    Is anyone.

    From all my conversations it appears to be a dead art form.

    Never a truer word.
  13. From what I understand the CAM flame is just about still alive. I haven't been to BATUS for a while, but I've spoken to a couple of people who have and they both said that while the traditional manoeuvre piece has been put under some pressure, there is just about enough to make it worthwhile.

  14. Ammunition compatibility between Leo2s and Abrams:

    Also new Israeli 120mm multipurpose ammo: