New Pension

#1
Ladies and Gentlemen,

Your views please or an explanation from someone at APC (this is not officer centric, but the example I am about to give affects officers more than other ranks):

An Intermediate Regular Commission lasts 16 years: the Immediate Pension Point is the 16 year point (after 21st birthday)... a healthy coincidence. The new pension that is being offered has an Early Departure POint (equivalent of IPP) at 18 years.

Questions:

1. Am I right in assuming that completing an IRC will not entitle you to an immediate pension?
2. Will IRCs be extended to 18yrs alongside the pension?

Opinion sought:

1. Is this fair?

Yours in mistrust

Barbs
 
#2
Your assumption is wrong. Anyone who has a commission that is due to expire at the 16 year point will be extended to the 18/40 point (EDP point under the new scheme).

Is it fair? Should someone be prejudiced against becuase the new pension scheme is better for them? Probably not.

PM me with any questions you have about this.
 
#3
I have just discovered that preserved pensions under AFPS 75 (our current pension scheme) for all those personnel leaving the Forces before the 16/22 year immediate pension points are changing. Preserved pensions for service after 6 Apr 2006 will now be paid at 65 not 60. Preserved pensions for service up to 6 Apr 2006 will still be paid at age 60. I do not believe this change has been well publicised. Personally it will cost me many thousands of pounds over the 5 years from 60 to 65. Why has there been no outcry over this? Any serviceman currently serving and intending to leave the Forces before the 16/22 year immediate pension points will lose money. The Trades Unions were up in arms about this for Local Govt and NHS workers. I note that the Serving Soldier pages on the Army Web Site still do not reflect this change to our terms and conditions.
 
#4
When and if your RAO gives you the Offer to Transfer (OTT) brief this point is explained. We are not the only ones being shafted it is happening to a lot of other public servants as well.

The moral is get yourself and your mates to that briefing, the decision you take on whether to switch pensions (and AFPS05 is actually better for some people) is vital in fact one of the most important financial decisions you will make in your life.
 
#5
Fellas,

Thanks for yuour replies... now what is not clear is whether IRCs for all those who are already on the new pension by default will be 16 years or 18 years?

If 16 they are being seriously undermined.
 
#6
It will be 18 years, the whole point of the IRC is to take the individual to the Immediate Pension Point or in the case of AFPS05 the 18/40 point, eligible for the EDP.
 
#7
I believe the whole thrust of the new pension scheme is because the old scheme which delineated the Officers' from Soldiers’ was unsustainable, insofar that under the old adage "Equal Pay = Equal Opportunities” Officers awarded pension at 16 years soldiers 22 years - notwithstanding the age 21 years difference - it was just not equal.

My point - it is my belief those currently having grandfather rights will not be disadvantaged - you never know though
:twisted:
 
#8
OK - I'm a cynic at the moment because not one person has yet quoted an official document or source for either old to new extension of IRC or the new IRC will be 18 years long... and I have trawled through DCIs to find the truth, and MS has not published anything to either effect.
 
#9
Barbs, the cynic in me suggests that the new pension - by its very virtue of being 'new' - is not to be trusted. I accept that there are people who will benefit, but they are very few and far between. If this meant more cash - or at least parity - does anyone honestly believe it would have been introduced in these days of constant clawbacks from the public sector?
 
#10
Darth - never doubted it for a minute.

My biggest concern is that people will not get a fair deal if their IRC doesn't match their EDP. That would be a stealth saving - seriously underhand IMO.
 
#11
The extension of 16 year commissions to the EDP point is detailed in the Offer to Transfer book that each and every individual who has the Offer to Transfer will receive.

As I said to you, i have been told there is an RN DCI, but despite searching long and hard, I have never seen it.

I will try to sneak out an OTT book and give you the exact quote from it.
 
#12
Nosweat,

Thanks. I've conducted an electronic search of all the DCIs for 2003 and 2004 and found nowt. I didn't mention it before.

Since we have a very short time left to decide it would be nice for the OTT books to appear!
 
#13
OTT packs should be sent out commencing 23 July. You will then have up to three months to return the decision form. The pack will contain most of the information you need and your Paymaster should have any other details you need.

In the meantime you should be gathering all your own financial information, thinking about your career prospects, how long you intend to stay and and talking to your wife/girlfiend/civil partner or dog to get their views!

The OTT decision will be one of the most important financial decisions that you take in your life and will definately effect the type of nursing home your kids will put you in later on. 8)
 
#14
Barbs, the cynic in me suggests that the new pension - by its very virtue of being 'new' - is not to be trusted. I accept that there are people who will benefit, but they are very few and far between. If this meant more cash - or at least parity - does anyone honestly believe it would have been introduced in these days of constant clawbacks from the public sector?
There will be some winners. These include the MOD, wives, registered partners (incl same sex), those on higher rates of pay (SAS, Tiffies etc) and those dying in service.

There will be many more losers, including anyone looking to boost their Terminal Grant (both types of commutation are lost), and anyone who does not serve to their 55th year is going to be about 100k down if they don't live to 65. Officers also get their 12 year Grant slashed.

Read some of the Commons select committee links starting here & later and you will be amazed at how little we have been informed.



Although supposedly 'cost neutral' Ivor Caplins rottweiler, Mr Iremonger stated it would save 2-2.5% pa...a cool 125million. I think the MPs are on our side, so it is a MOD (Treasury ?) issue.

The Firemen, Police and others stand up for their terms of service (and if you think ours is good take a look at their pensions schemes !) ...what voice do we have ? (I don't include the buffers at the FPS)

Too late now, it is here and you have until mid Oct to decide to move or stay with the current scheme. I doubt too many will move
 
#15
agg, just be cautious, I've done a couple of calculations and broadly the MoD is correct it is cost neutral. You get the same amount of money overall, just paid much later in your life. For some people, say a full career QM who joined as a boy soldier, well he could do very well out of AFPS05.

Each individual; really needs to study their own personal; circumstances.
 
#16
Hi All
Great debate, is there going to be a calculator available to predict what we get back?
Am i right in thinking a SSgt who has been on the higher range with 5 year increments(Passed over for Warrant Tiffy for eg) would be better placed than the bog standard SSgt pension?
When do they become index linked too?
This is all very confusing for my little old head!
Thanks all in advance
 
#17
Catch

Yes there should be a web based calculator once the OTT is started.

As for your SSgt pension, Cave! Yes a top of the scale soldier will do better that under representative pay rates BUT you would have to guarantee serving to 55. Otherwise at the 18/40 point you would get the EDP at 50% of your preserved pension rate.

Look thru' all the leaflets available on the MoDWeb and DefenceNet.
 
#19
nosweat said:
The extension of 16 year commissions to the EDP point is detailed in the Offer to Transfer book that each and every individual who has the Offer to Transfer will receive.

As I said to you, i have been told there is an RN DCI, but despite searching long and hard, I have never seen it.

I will try to sneak out an OTT book and give you the exact quote from it.
The one question that is still unanswered, is for those already on AFPS 05 will their IRCs be 18 years or 16 yrs?

I am old system and applying to transfer from IRC to Reg C so not really concerend (immediately) but I am concerned for those joining the system. I have a concern about the joinedupness.

I am very grateful to nosweat and paymaster for their knowledge and patience!
 
#20
I am no 'manner' but the point of the IRC is to take someone to their Immediate Pension Point, or the new EDP point, so I can only assume that instead of a commission to the 16 year point it will be to the EDP point.

I expect the whole culture of manning the forces will change as and when JPA has been rolled out.
 

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