New Pakistani rape law a threat to Islam

#1
Pakistan's government has vowed to pass a bill "at all costs" to help rape victims prosecute their attackers.

Under a current law, rape cases require the testimonies of four witnesses, making convictions extremely difficult.

A woman who claims she was raped but fails to prove it risks being prosecuted for adultery - which is punishable by death.

The proposed changes have drawn fierce resistance from some religious parties, who say the changes would be un-Islamic.

More than 65 lawmakers have threatened to vacate their seats in the 344-seat Nationality Assembly, if the bill is passed.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13541727,00.html
 

Nehustan

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#2
Interesting. It doesn't really delve too much into 'witness' practice of Islam. In islamic law for instance two female witnessess are required to every male, I think. So for instance at a marriage (which is Islamically very simple) all that is required is two male witnesses to the fact, or one male witness and two female, or four female. I think as rape is usually not commited on the morning bus into work with a plethera of onlookers it is certainly good to consider reform of the law, especially with DNA evidence and/or signs of violence. Of course there is the consent issue, but from what I gather islamically sex requires the consent of the Shariah, so sex outside of marriage between muslims could be considered statutory rape, as the guardian does not grant consent, and one of the 99 names of Allah is 'Al Muhaymin', The Guardian.
 
#3
I think the Pakistani issue is also complicated by Tribal custom.
 

Nehustan

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#4
armchair_jihad said:
I think the Pakistani issue is also complicated by Tribal custom.
That's very possible, as this is so often the case with what is percieved to be Islam, what was that quote by Asad...

‘…that Islam is simply what Muslims everywhere say it is – will not do, if only because there are everywhere Muslims who say that what other people take to be Islam is not Islam at all.’

Asad, T., 1986, The idea of an anthropology of islam, Centre for Contemporary Arab Studies, Georgetown University, Washington D.C., USA.
 
#5
This is yet another example of modern Western cultures creeping into Islam, only to be faced with yet more fierce opposition from cavemen, who's chauvenistic lives are better off as things stand. Many of the religious laws they currently enforce are quite obviously laughably outdated, and a reform is underway in some areas as we write. The average Muslim family can come to Britain and follow their own ways and customs, but with the freedom that an environment like UK affords. It stands to reason that the large number of passive Muslim people who wish to remain in Pakistan will view life in Britain as better, and will try to improve their own lives by using elements of Western customs as an influence. It's quite reassuring to read that Pakistan are attempting to better themselves in line with the modern world. Young impressionable devotees of Islam may well become a little harder to brainwash in the future.....
 

Nehustan

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#6
armchair_jihad said:
I think the Pakistani issue is also complicated by Tribal custom.
I think Armchair's reply, and subsequently my own, stands as reply...
 
#7
The MPs are from the mullah-tastic MQM lot. The new law would repeal certain aspects of the hudood ordinance (Laws based on the sharia in regards to Zina (Sexual relations). The MQM is playing to a wider audience they supported Musharraf but now feel betrayed by him, the Sharia system (passed by Zia, long may he burn) is still popular but in regards to rape, I think Musharraf has the populace on his side.
 
#8
The whole rape issue is compounded by the fact that the "witnesses" referred to have to have actually witnessed the act taking place -- DNA evidence does not count, since it is not a witness.

An accusation of adultery made by a man against a woman does not require for witnesses however......
 

Nehustan

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#9
stoatman said:
The whole rape issue is compounded by the fact that the "witnesses" referred to have to have actually witnessed the act taking place -- DNA evidence does not count, since it is not a witness.

An accusation of adultery made by a man against a woman does not require for witnesses however......
I think it does, don't have the ayat to hand but I seem to recall it does, something along the line of 'if accusation z is made by y then let them bring x witnesses'. Also there is delineation between adultery i.e. where one or more of the involved are married, without the other's knowledge and thus betrayal undermining the social unit of the family, and those who are not married which is fornication. They are different and carry different punishments under Islamic law.
 
#10
I for one, would like to praise Pakistan for this bold, unflinching step into the 18th Century.....
 
#11
I've noticed a funny thing in my local community. Most Pakistani immigrants moved to the West after the birth of their first girl child. I wonder what might prompt this pattern :wink:
 
#12
Ah Jihad
Trible custom, I assume ya've never lived with them.
I have no problems with the Islamic comunity where I live, mainly of Chinese decent but 9 years of the middle east cured me of that breed. Tribe rules all, they have never progressed to nationhood and live in in the past when all was passed down by memory/word of mouth.
They detest their own Blacks, ex slaves, who are never accepted and women are treated as useful property.
I once remember a couple telling me that It was good to have a muslim wife for when you came in after a night out down the mess you where in the right to kick her out of bed to make you a meal and these where guys who had previously told me that the Koran established rights for women.
The right to do as told. ( Must have caused my devorce that conversion)
john
 

Nehustan

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#13
‘…that Islam is simply what Muslims everywhere say it is – will not do, if only because there are everywhere Muslims who say that what other people take to be Islam is not Islam at all.’
 
#14
Almost everything is an affront to Islam. In fact I at times think that Islam is an affront to Islam. Its like all religion. Study it carefully long enough and you end up disspearing up your own crevice. (Which again is an affront to Islam). Mind you thats what you get when you believe in Dark Age claptrap. I have just declared a fatwah on myself, to save anyone else getting in first. Or is that an affront to Islam? Can one declare a fatwah on himself? Or do you have to be nominated by a select commitee? Either way I am damned! Good job I don't believe isn't it?
 

Nehustan

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#16
Not a particularly good one. The fact that no islamic arguments could be found for the circumstances in the 21st/15th Century, and that the secular/civil law has had to be used is a loss for the women, and a loss for Shariah. Shariah need not be archaic, in fact it should not be. The fact that the scholars won't interpret it in light of modern developments only portrays the shariah in a badlight, and plays into the hands of pro-western propagandists. Sometimes I half wonder if 'they' (traditionalists) like doing this as some kind of game of ping pong with 'modern' thought, with modern muslims caught in between in crises of conscience.
 

AlienFTM

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#17
Iran und Hezbollah Siegt An Allen Fronten!
My mother used to tell me that this (as applied to the party salutes illustrated) translates as:

Shit's that high in wor back yard.
Very old joke - obviously if it's what me Mam used to teach me.
 

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