New logo - does the TA exist anymore?

#1


Um, is it me?

I knew about the revision to the Army Jobs web site - indeed, I knew about the forthcoming change to the logo. I wasn't aware however, that it would be in the public domain quite so soon, nor that it would be launched with so little fanfare.

Furthermore, I have now sat and looked at it (sad I know) and it strikes me that although it sits there in the top right hand corner - looking for all the world somewhat innocent and polished - it might represent one of the most significant changes in military policy and the history of the TA within the last 100 years.

An event that happened right under our noses, and one that we had no influence over. One that could be a turning point, irreversible, and perhaps self destructive.

Just stop for a moment and think about it. What does the new logo say?

Is it just the next natural step in the process of the TA and the Regulars becoming better integrated? Perhaps it's just a natty bit of marketing and actually, the real substance doesn't match the promise? Maybe it's just a an internal thing and only the military will understand it and it's no great shakes. But maybe, just maybe, is it (in the notable absence of the admittedly horrible and old fashioned green and yellow logo) indicative of something far more sinister, meaningful, and fundamental?

The more I think about it, the more I am of the opinion that it is the latter.

No more will there be a clear distinction between Territorial and Regular.
No more will the broad and 'volunteer' ethos of the self perpetuating TA (as was) exist.
What real power will the hierarchy of the TA now be able to exert?
Who's now running the TA?
What is the TA? - does it exist anymore? (I'm beginning to think not)
What is 'spare time' (as quoted all over the web site) - could a Regular join the TA in his 'spare' time?
If we're all part of the same Army - where is the parity of terms and conditions on a pro rata basis?
Can this leap into a fully joined up effort be sustained? - is it just because of current world events and can it ever be reversed?
Is it really joined up?

Is it me?

thoughts on a postcard ......
 
#2
If we're all part of the same Army - where is the parity of terms and conditions on a pro rata basis?
You get paid the same, minus the x factor which covers moves etc, not affecting the TA.

You get RESPOD, you get bonuses for doing things that Regs do not.

We get a pension, you don't.

If you want it exactly the same, it isn't going to happen.
 
#3
chocolate_frog said:
If we're all part of the same Army - where is the parity of terms and conditions on a pro rata basis?
You get paid the same, minus the x factor which covers moves etc, not affecting the TA.

You get RESPOD, you get bonuses for doing things that Regs do not.

We get a pension, you don't.

If you want it exactly the same, it isn't going to happen.
Was the use of the word 'You' a fruedian slip? - surely you meant 'We'?
 
#4
Just meaningless spin I feel, not a new event in todays's world. It's a shame the MoD is spending money on making some firm of image consultants rich instead of buying things like, I don't know, fast armed patrol boats but its not much of an event.

As long as the TA are "casual labour" and not "part-time" we're never, ever going to integrate in terms of T's and C's with the regulars. (Well, except when we're mobilised of course.) And because the practical implications of "part-time" employment are highly unlikely to be acceptable to your civvy employer I don't see it changing any time soon.

Remove the volunteer ethos and the TA (or whatever we're called) will cease to exist. Part-time will only be practical for anyone without a proper job who doesn't want to hack it in the regulars full time - just think through the quality implications of that one. Everyone else will either join the regs or find something else to do at the weekends to get away from the job that pays the bills.
 
#5
I have been TA for 20 years (almost to the day!) and I have seen it change beyond recognition- there is no way the TA that I joined could be involved in the things that are happening today. I have, for a long time, wished an image change on the TA and perhaps it is coming albeit slowly.
It is possiblr that the TA will become more part time than volunteer based as it is with the Nat Guard in the USA- if you dont turn up to a trg weekend the MPs turn up at your doorstep. Hoorah. Cut the wheat from the chaff.
 
#6
One_of_the_strange said:
Remove the volunteer ethos and the TA (or whatever we're called) will cease to exist. Part-time will only be practical for anyone without a proper job who doesn't want to hack it in the regulars full time - just think through the quality implications of that one. Everyone else will either join the regs or find something else to do at the weekends to get away from the job that pays the bills.
I rest my case. Maybe the TA hasn't properly existed for a while now. What is emerging is an 'active reserve', not made up of weekend warriors but part timers - the two are very different in approach, attitude, availability and expectations.

Ho hum.
 
#7
762baynet said:
Nat Guard in the USA- if you dont turn up to a trg weekend the MPs turn up at your doorstep. Hoorah. Cut the wheat from the chaff.
Yeah then ship the bastards to a combat zone ! No Prison time, no getting out. :twisted:
 
#8
FANTASTIC!!!

That bl**dy awful green & yellow logo with its dodgy typeface straight out of 'Life on Mars' redolent of mullet haircuts, spacehoppers and the 'Professionals' on the telly is finally - finally - biting the dust.

Another step forward to actually feeling properly proud of my part-time career, rather than slightly sheepish & embarrassed, due to the widespread negative image.

As far as your other questions go, Wingletang, it will not surprise you to know that I am a little more optimistic about the changes than you appear to be.
 
#10
Wingletang said:
What is emerging is an 'active reserve', not made up of weekend warriors but part timers - the two are very different in approach, attitude, availability and expectations.

Ho hum.
Top observation.
 
#11
Wingletang said:
One_of_the_strange said:
Remove the volunteer ethos and the TA (or whatever we're called) will cease to exist. Part-time will only be practical for anyone without a proper job who doesn't want to hack it in the regulars full time - just think through the quality implications of that one. Everyone else will either join the regs or find something else to do at the weekends to get away from the job that pays the bills.
I rest my case. Maybe the TA hasn't properly existed for a while now. What is emerging is an 'active reserve', not made up of weekend warriors but part timers - the two are very different in approach, attitude, availability and expectations.

Ho hum.
It doesn't look like that where I am - I suspect that units do very considerably. Mind you, we're a bunch of old geezers so the TA has to fit round work and family. We do get youngsters in who want to do more but they tend to go regular fairly quickly - they'd be pretty stupid not to after all.

That said, recruiting and retaining enough youngsters to replace the current incumbents is a slow motion car crash - but I suspect this is driven my the growing incompatibilty of the TA with a job and family rather than by attitudes once in.
 
#12
Wingletang said:
I knew about the revision to the Army Jobs web site - indeed, I knew about the forthcoming change to the logo. I wasn't aware however, that it would be in the public domain quite so soon, nor that it would be launched with so little fanfare.
We have known about the launch of OAR for best part of a year now and it has been debated extensively in these forums.

It was intended to launch with a huge amount of fanfare but unfortunately the Iranians decided to interfere with what otherwise would have been a quiet news week.

Press release (03.04.07) said:
Embargo till 01.00 Thursday 5 April 2007


THE LAUNCH OF ONE ARMY RECRUITMENT


Wednesday 4 April 2007, London: Today sees the Army unveiling its new integrated recruitment process and a new recruitment brand identity and website under the banner of One Army Recruiting. At the end of another recruiting year, it is also an opportunity to share its latest Army recruitment figures.

2006/07 has proved an encouraging year for Army recruiting with 18,448 young men and women enlisting into the Regular and Territorial Army. The numbers enlisting as soldiers in the Regular Army is up 11% YOY*, and particular effort has been applied to recruiting into The Royal Regiment of Artillery and Regular Infantry, with both Arms showing a healthy 25% YOY* increase.

The Army continually strives to improve its recruitment process and the way in which it does its business. Of course, all employers are competing for the most suitable young people and they do this against the background of increasing opportunities in Further Education, relatively low unemployment and a healthy economy. The Army is no different, albeit that it requires special qualities of its people, all of whom are expected to deploy on operations. With these factors in mind, the Army has completed a research programme which examined young people’s attitudes to - and knowledge of - the Army. The programme explored what inspires young people and drives them in their career choice; and put the existing recruitment process under the microscope – examining who it targets, and how it directs people that have shown an interest in an Army career.

Two key findings have influenced the changes:
• The Territorial Army is an integral part of the Army, yet the current recruitment process treats them separately.
• There are currently 140 trades and 1,000 jobs in the Army. This provides opportunities for a wide scope of different personalities and skill sets, however, research has shown that awareness of this is low.


Employment opportunities available to young people in the Army will now be marketed under a refreshed Army: Be The Best logo that serves to reflect the way that regular and Territorial officers and soldiers work – and now recruit - together.

OAR introduces a new experience for anyone interested in learning about the Army.
In the past, Army Recruiters would have focused on recruiting regular soldiers, but they are now equipped to discuss all aspects of the Army’s career offer including officer and soldier; regular and territorial - and across all trades - from Army Chef to Army Vet.

A new advertising campaign, on air from 5 April 2007, specifically targets four different personality types. A series of films, each featuring real-life soldiers, introduce ‘cliff-hanger’ scenarios which are designed to entice the viewer to log on to the new website www.armyjobs.mod.uk, to see the concluding part of the film.

The Army is also launching a unique online tool - Army Pathfinder - which can be accessed at armyjobs.mod.uk. Army Pathfinder is a motivational profiling tool which leads the potential recruit through a number of personality questions, and develops a detailed insight into the individual's motivations and aspirations for the future.

If the candidate is interested in learning more about an Army career they are invited to chat online to an Army Careers Office, or arrange to meet an Army Recruiter for a personalised career consultation, which will explore their aspirations, competencies and skill sets - and how they might be relevant to different Army roles.

The OAR fully integrated marketing campaign sees the TV advertising concept being adopted for radio and print ads, which also aim to drive people to the website.

Brigadier Andrew Jackson, Commander Recruiting Group comments: ‘OAR is progressive, important and necessary to refocus the execution of the Army’s recruiting business. Our aim is to deliver a more fulfilling experience for those interested, or intending to join today’s modern Army. Ultimately, a more efficient recruitment process will deliver more focused results.”

- ends –
 
#13
I welcome the change from the old 'Green and Yella' to something more positive, reflecting the current commitments and closer integration with our regular counterparts. It is at least 15 years overdue.

However, by no means do I think that this piece of window dressing will, at a stroke, transform the public image of the TA from the Gareth/Dads Army stigma and consign TA/Reg baiting to the dustbin of history.

The tensions surrounding TA service remain: the conflicting demands of our families, careers and TA; the weak legislation covering our potential mobilisation; the perceived lack of funding for our training and lack of interest in our progression. These and more will continue to affect TA recruiting, and more importantly, retention until they are properly addressed.

Until a proper contract, covering all aspects of service, mobilisation, protection and welfare can be agreed by all involved parties we will still be struggling to fulfil the Army's current overstretch requirements while weakening as an organisation.

A fresh coat of paint won't do that.
 
#14
The old TA yellow and green logo was dropped as it was a "Negative Brand Image"

I look at this as a slow retirement of the Territorial name, once TA 100 is out the way wait for the change to "ARMY - Be The Best - Regular and Reserve"

I doubt however that we will turn into a US NG/AR unit with RMPs kicking the doors in, those organisations are very different to the TA with more money and benefits than we get, force us to turn up will see a massive reduction in serving soldiers and huge impact in recruiting. The best feature of the TA, fustrating as it is for the organisers and regular attenders, is the volunteer "turn up when I can" approach

Change it at your peril, I for one will have to walk, not because I don't WANT to do the time, but because I CAN'T do the time
 
#15
Wingletang said:
Furthermore, I have now sat and looked at it (sad I know) and it strikes me that although it sits there in the top right hand corner - looking for all the world somewhat innocent and polished - it might represent one of the most significant changes in military policy and the history of the TA within the last 100 years.
Thats a bit OTT, i think SDR was a bigger change.

Wingletang said:
Just stop for a moment and think about it. What does the new logo say?
It says its the Army... seems pretty simple to me or haven't i read deeply enough into this?

Wingletang said:
Is it just the next natural step in the process of the TA and the Regulars becoming better integrated? Perhaps it's just a natty bit of marketing and actually, the real substance doesn't match the promise? Maybe it's just a an internal thing and only the military will understand it and it's no great shakes. But maybe, just maybe, is it (in the notable absence of the admittedly horrible and old fashioned green and yellow logo) indicative of something far more sinister, meaningful, and fundamental? The more I think about it, the more I am of the opinion that it is the latter.
Maybe you need to see a head doctor? Whats sinister about a logo change? The TA has been a reserve pool of deployable pers for some considerable time now... i don't need a logo to tell me that.

Wingletang said:
No more will there be a clear distinction between Territorial and Regular. No more will the broad and 'volunteer' ethos of the self perpetuating TA (as was) exist.
Eh? Unless you're in barracks Mon-Fri, or on non-voluntary permanent deployment there should be a pretty clear distinction

Wingletang said:
What real power will the hierarchy of the TA now be able to exert?
No change, same as before.

Wingletang said:
Who's now running the TA?
The MOD, so no change.

Wingletang said:
What is the TA? - does it exist anymore? (I'm beginning to think not)
Yes, it does, but if you're a 40+ pie eating NCO, your days are probably numbered.

Wingletang said:
What is 'spare time' (as quoted all over the web site) - could a Regular join the TA in his 'spare' time?
Its the time you spend outside your primary job, where you get to choose what to do. Why would a reg want to join the TA part time? Tit.

Wingletang said:
If we're all part of the same Army - where is the parity of terms and conditions on a pro rata basis?
FFS, the T&C are different because the committment is different...

Wingletang said:
Can this leap into a fully joined up effort be sustained? - is it just because of current world events and can it ever be reversed?
Thats one for Mystic Meg...

Wingletang said:
Is it me?
YES!

TB
 
#16
Top B

Thanks!

PS - not a 40+ pie eating NCO. 3 marathons under my belt and 25 years continuous territorial service (if that helps)
 
#17
Actually Wingletang does raise some valuable points.

In particular, if he is a serving member of the TA and was unaware of exactly what is happening, it shows that the One Army perhaps needs to do something about its internal communications.

Those who choose to mock him on the T&Cs issue may be unaware that the MOD is being challenged through the courts on the current "casual labour" status of the VRFs. My money is on them getting a good kicking over this even though they are taking it slightly more seriously than they did pregnancy.

I hadn't seen the official OAR press release either. I was most impressed with the increase in regular recruitment quoted but I did rather wonder how many of the applicants were from Fiji or our other former colonies. I rather think that the real picture can't be that rosy when Commander Recruiting Group's regiment ( OK, RRS rather than KOSB) has the following as FTRS vacancies despite having redistributed a battalion last year:

NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR FULL TIME RESERVE SERVICE
WITH THE ROYAL HIGHLAND FUSILIERS
2nd BATTALION THE ROYAL REGIMENT OF SCOTLAND

IN GLENCOURSE BARRACKS ~ PENICIUK ~ MIDLOTHIAN

Serial No: FC06/09-01 “October Special”

With immediate effect the following FTRS FC Posts are available on 24 month renewable contracts:

 INFANTRY SECTION COMMANDERS & SOLDIERS
 RECCE DET COMMANDERS & SOLDIERS
 MORTAR FIRE CONTROLLERS
 SNIPERS
 MORTARMEN
 GPMG SF GUNNERS
 SIGNALLERS
 MESS STEWARDS
 POST NCO
 MIL CLERKS
 MEDICS
 CHEFS

APPLICATIONS & ENQUIRIES WELCOME NOW
Why not just put an advert in the newsagent's window saying "Infantry Battalion Wanted" ?
 
#18
Why not just put an advert in the newsagent's window saying "Infantry Battalion Wanted" ?
Excellent! Had a good chuckle at that one!
 
#19
as has been mentioned allready, I think if they really want to push this 'One Army' thing, they really have to asses the T&C's.
The payday lottery should really be a thing of the past. New members of the TA should not have to wait 6-12 months before appearing on the payroll. Yes I know JPA is meant to sort it al out, but since when have new systems worked perfectly first time round.
Yes you shouldnt rely on TA pay, but at the end of the day if you're putting the time in and taking time off from your civvie employment, you should get paid.
 
#20
The current business in the courts involves the R IRISH (Part Time) who were on substantially different Ts and Cs and who were treated substantially differently to the TA. While they will probably win their case it won't have any implications for the TA.

Short of changing current UK employment law the only real change you can make is to shift the TA from being casual labour to part-time.

However, then you have to find an employer happy to employ you when you already have a job - and in general they aren't happy and will not employ you. Most second jobs are casual - that is they fit around the primary employer- like the TA is now. So it's not going to change. It can't. Unless you're happy with a TA full of dolies and spongers.

If you doubt me just think about the detail. TA says your camp is (dates), turn up or else. Work say you're not going away then, if you're not here then we'll sack you. Try resolving that one in the context of current legislation. And there are also lots of unintended circumstances - if I do my 30 days on MTDs then I get 2.5 days paid holiday, just like the regs. Cancel the w/e ? Got to pay me anyway, and it doesn't count as hols. And so on ...

Changing current TA Ts and Cs can only realistically take place if it is accompanied by the creation of a new category of employee in law, coupled with new employment legislation affording protection to TA membership at a level similar to that enjoyed by, for instance, pregnant women. Look at the US for a good example of what I mean.

If you see a package of legislation like that on the horizon then stand by, until then anyone who promises substantive change is uninformed or guilty of wishful thinking.
 
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