New leak says SDSR was rushed and MOD Teddy new locstat is external to cot

Discussion in 'Strategic Defence & Spending Review (SDSR)' started by smallbrownprivates, Nov 18, 2010.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:


    An interesting situation - I'm sure there will be commentators who will say the MOD required a short sharp shock given the parlous state it got itself into.
    On the other hand, should national security be put at risk from an imposed rushed inaccurate process?

    Or put it this way, can an accident victim complain about rough triage when they contributed significantly (as an organisation) to the car crash?

    Seconds out, touch gloves and box.......
  2. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Maybe the driver shouldn't complain but his passengers and the other victims of his error might feel entitiled to a gripe.

    Is SDSR a rush job? Should they have spent a year or 18 months or even 2 years? I don't know. Would it have come to different conclusions if they had?
  3. Depends on what definition of a rush job is - the precursor work to SDSR started many months prior to the official start of the review. The Dept knew that whoever won the election would be conducting an SDSR, so began many months of paper creation on various issues, and establishing workstrands, so that whoever took over would have the basis of the review in place. So, in reality SDSR was nearly a year long in terms of getting work done - only 6 months of it were driven by the politics though.

    We all knew it was going to be a hatchet job, and this paper is not a surprise. I am getting tired though of this endless drip of leaks - qleaking these papers wont change anything, and merely undermines a lot of people and the chain of command. Yes there are issues, yes morale is low, but this doesnt need to be sent out in a leaked document to the whole world to see.
  4. Taking the analogy further then (and potentially into NAAFI bar territory), looking at jim30's point: should passengers be fishing through the wreckage and highlighting that the driver's bag is full of dodgy MDN style "leisure toys" or other less palatable items are present (bodies of budgets wrapped in carpets, MOT failure certificates,dodgy contracts etc) less they be tarred with the same brush?
  5. If the 'brass' had not realised that the country was flat broke and cuts were inevitable, then they only have themselves to blame. The MoD actually got of light compared to the expected cuts!

    If the 'brass' had not realised the New Labour foreign policy of intervention is an aberration not their future, then they only have themselves to blame.

    If the 'brass' had not realised the appalling procurement contractual obligations negotiated by New Labour and the MoD, then they only have themselves to blame.

    If the 'brass' thought that the tooth fairy was going to appear and generate 'special' funding for their careers, then they only have themselves to blame.

    I have little time for those who decide to sulk in the corner because they didn't get their own way, bitch and mumble to themselves, and then have the contents of their mumbles conveniently leaked.
  6. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    I don't disagree with what you say Whitecity but I am concerned if the defence of the realm is compromised because of a desire to save a ha'penny worth o' tar.

    I also believe that the defence of the realm includes going abroad to sort out various messes around the world, because sooner or later they will end up threatening us more directly if we don't.
  7. From the leaked document, as quoted in the DT article

    which gives the impression that the only noise to be heard in Main Building was the chanting of la-la-la-la-la from those with their eyes screwed shut and their fingers in their ears. Not the case, I'm sure.

  8. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Sadly, from many in the Military, of all shades, that was almost exactly the case. This document reveals two fundamental things about the MOD - and particularly the Senior Military there:

    1. The leaks culture is well established. If 'they' weren't known to leak regularly and fully to their favourite hacks, then the passage of info would have been so much easier. Sadly, senior Officers simply cannot be trusted - that's the truth; a very unpalatable one to anyone who thinks that morals still have a place in the world, but true nonetheless.

    2. Inter-Service rivalry is alive, healthy, and a bane to all those trying to establish a common Defence position. Bleating from all three was at astonishing levels, and undoubtedly leads to the reinforcement of the 'Leaks Culture'.
  9. In the words of Sir H Applebey, "The Ship of State, is the only ship that leaks from the top"
  10. Surely, the fundamental approach to the SDSR should have been to define and understand the UK Natioanl Level of Ambition is terms of "Defence".

    In the most simple terms explain what exactly is it that "they" want us to be able to do.

    Once you know what you are expected to do, you have reasonable chance of understanding whether you can do it, and / or if you need any additional capability (in terms of resources/equipment/training) to allow you to be prepared for the required task(s).

    This is basic and frankly to do anything else flies in the face of every principle of The Services being. If a young officer or NCO wrote an appreciation that started with the solution before examining his factors and options they would be rightly criticised (and that would only be a test scenario).

    Why is it that senior Officers and MOD Officials feel they can simply ignore the basic structures we all understand when it suits - or is this the new reality?
  11. "If the 'brass' had not realised the appalling procurement contractual obligations negotiated by New Labour and the MoD, then they only have themselves to blame."

    To be fair, the appalling train crash that is procurement is not solely the fault of the Armed Forces. HM Government and particularly HM Treasury have a considerable degree of responsiblity. The last 13 years have seen almost constant delays and rescheduling for no reason other than the fact that the PM of the day let the Chancellor of the day run the country whilst he preened himself on the world stage. As the result the Forces had their budget repeatedly pruned to allow said fuckwit to waste money on HIS vanity projects. Every time the budget was pruned Hm Treasury forced delays in projects to save a little cash this year, whilst adding more costs next year, and the next year, and the next year, and the next year, and the next year.....
  12. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    You're not suggesting the oaf Brown might in some way be responsible for the mess are you?
  13. Do I need to suggest ?

    Cavet. not the whole mess. The appallingly bad way HM Forces run treats Project teams with constantly rotating staff is just as much to blame, in my eyes.
  14. He is such a financial wizard - specialising in selling gold at the best prices!
  15. Is it right that BAES bought the gold and built Nimrod wings with it?

    As for the leaks, its all Tory politics. Fox will be off in due course - Danegeld Dave will not forgive.

    Mind you, fair play as Jim30 said, lots of work was done early doors but then didn't the Treasury drop the Trident bomb at the last minute, which had the effect of changing the game.

    Dr F's leaked letter stated pretty baldly that the Government would struggle to have a narrative for the SDSR and no wonder. Dr Fox promised Defence would emerge stronger from SDSR - has it? If so, you would think morale amongst all these people that care about Defence would soar.......