New homes to be left off the gas grid

#41
Not where we were in Pennsylvania and not that I can remember on the places I saw in NY State either - front door straight into the nice open plan house to suck all the heat out. Most people drive into their garages anyway and go into the house from there.

TBH the houses I saw in Pennsylvania are the worst I have ever seen for the climate in which they are built to function in. Absolute pish, I honestly think with some of them you would have been warmer building a Ray Mears type shelter in the garden.
What springs to mind with me are the houses I see when I cross over into Michigan. It just caught my eye these beautiful brick or stone front porches that have been sealed in with windows and architecturally look off.
 
#42
So [yes, yes, I know], all the energy formerly provided by diesel and petrol to power our cars, will now be replaced by electricity. And, all the energy formerly provided by gas to heat and cook with, will now be replaced by electricity.

Good job there's so much spare capacity in the grid, eh?

The ******* muppets.
They haven't told you that electricity for cooking will only be on for an hour a couple of times a day, at higher tariffs. :cool:
 
#43
As an aside, I'd love to let some tree huggers see just what's required to make the steel plates that go into all those wind turbines, it is rather amusing to see wind classed as "green" energy :)
Not enough steel went into this one is seems. So far I've seen two that burned and this one that just crumpled...
turbine.PNG
 
#46
Thanks for that @Effendi, but I've had very little to do with "green" which I'm quite cynical about.

It annoys me that even the latest houses might have plenty of expensive technology, but they don't give much thought to passive.

You should always go for the passive options first, like insulation, before you start looking at high tech savings, which are often snake- oil.

One factor I went for with my house was it faces due south, and the windows are fairly large, so the solar gain in winter is quite dramatic.

Plus the woodburner gives out worthwhile cheap heat, at the same time, giving a healthy air- change.

It's backed up by an Intergas condensing boiler, which is very simply built, with very little to go wrong.

As a rule of thumb, the more expensive technology, when it goes wrong, will cost a fortune to fix, and will be very difficult to find someone capable of fixing it, losing all savings.
That is what I tell the kids when they nag me to buy that nice, cheap 2nd hand, flash motor - a buying a bundle of technology for 30K which when new cost 100K is only a bargain until it goes wrong. When you need to fix it you are fixing a 100K motor regardless of what bargain price you paid for it.

Back to houses: I love passive energy gains, if it is free except for a bit of work, or does not involve fangled technology and lasts forever I will have it. Insulation is the starter for 10, along with stopping draughts and solar gain through good windows.
 
#47
On the subject of heat rising, a mate runs his ceiling fan in reverse on a slow setting and swears it helps make the room warmer.
Makes sense as it should blow the heat down off the ceiling. I would try it but swmbo will be "in a draught".
 
#48
Brutal.
When we moved into our rental place, we asked where the switch was for the water heating. We got a puzzled look in return - apparently it is just on all the time...

I also asked a colleague why the don't put solar panels on their roofs - it would go someway to offsetting the energy cost of the central heating, and there can't be many places better than Houston for solar - but apparently you have to go a long way to find a HOA that would allow it.
Check the laws of the State HOA cant stop Solar Paneling in a few states now Can I Install Home Solar Panels with an HOA in 2019? | EnergySage
 
#49
Passive Solar Simplified by Thomas Doerr from Amazon

An interesting book on green design....... I snagged it on Kindle when it was free.

Lots of good advice, especially for people wanting to build their own, but it's shocking to see how little of his knowledge crosses over into mainstream estate new builds.
 
#50
It's already happening over here in Cloggieland. The new deevelopments on the edge of the town are having no gas-main extended to them. Everything must be electrical, no oil-tanks allowed either. The tiny question of producing the electricity hasn't yet been addressed and, fortunately, the date for the rest of the town to be forcibly taken off gas has been made more vague (as that would involve rebuilding the current electrical infrastructure for everyone).
 
#51
On the subject of heat rising, a mate runs his ceiling fan in reverse on a slow setting and swears it helps make the room warmer.
Makes sense as it should blow the heat down off the ceiling. I would try it but swmbo will be "in a draught".
I used to do this at the last house , had nice high ceilings there. It does work
 
#52
It's already happening over here in Cloggieland. The new deevelopments on the edge of the town are having no gas-main extended to them. Everything must be electrical, no oil-tanks allowed either. The tiny question of producing the electricity hasn't yet been addressed and, fortunately, the date for the rest of the town to be forcibly taken off gas has been made more vague (as that would involve rebuilding the current electrical infrastructure for everyone).
Gas never did get to my village . nearest gas is at a town six miles away . At least we are allowed oil tanks though
 

MrBane

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#55
I'll have a bit of rant about this whole off-gas thing if I may.

My main gaff is Gas combi. Comfortable, heat on demand, hot water on demand, low maintenance, etc. Not much money per month.

My place in Aviemore is off-gas (whole area is) and is electric only, because it's a holiday let and I can't be having any of this unreliable renewable pish. The house is cosy as required, hot water as required as long as the immerser has hot water in it. I pay around £3500pa for electricity (though I'm slowly beating this down through passive measures).

My neighbour in Aviemore relies on his log burner to heat the living room, kitchen and hall, and wraps up in the bedrooms, with a small Dimplex electric in each if needs must. He turns his immerser on at two points during the day and is careful with his water usage. His house is borderline comfortable until you go to the very cold bedrooms. He is in fuel poverty as he can't afford to heat his full house.

My friend in Aviemore is on a shared bio-mass boiler, with a family of five. She is in fuel poverty as she can't afford to heat her whole house and the biomass often has issues with it, as well as pellet shortages.

Another person I know in Aviemore runs on oil but has been left shy when refills haven't arrived on time during bad weather. He's not in fuel poverty, but his heating system has failed in the past due to lack of fuel.

I've looked at all the renewables available and had a survey conducted by the government backed home energy body (name temporarily escapes me) and they recommended air source heat pump, which can need a fair whack of electricity to run and isn't always efficient or able to heat a home fully.

Ground source heat pumps are now being reported as unreliable due to the heat in the ground not replenishing as fast as the system takes it out.

Solar is flakey at best and won't be able to provide for the demand during winter.

Wind isn't an option due to planning and again, reliability.

Battery storage isn't an option due to the ROI which I worked out at about 44 years.

So this idea of banning new builds from gas is ******* ludicrous. Especially in urban areas where you may not have the space nor infrastructure to support renewables.

It's another knee-jerk reaction to a bigger problem - rather than hitting home owners trying to heat their homes, focus instead on the bigger fish such as the tens of thousands of haulage trucks rattling around the country, the aircraft whizzing overhead, the huge tankers bringing in Chinese tat that ends up in landfill, the recycling plants that are just burning the waste, etc, etc.

There needs to be a complete culture change if we want to make an impact on emissions in this country - we're coming in to the decade of consumption and waste now that online shopping is pretty much at full fruition and as long as people decide they want to buy a £3 piece of plastic tat from around the other side of the world that'll end up in a landfill here, we've got much bigger problems than how people heat their homes.

In my opinion.
 
#56
@MrBane , I had an air source heat pump installed in Pennsylvania that was backed up with a BFO log fire when things got really bad. Water was on electric anyway.

I could have improved matters by building a lattice type structure around the external part of the heat pump to stop it getting covered in snow and ice. I would have but, we managed to escape to warmer Texas.

If I were you and I were looking at this let for the long term I would go and get a price on having an air source HP installed and look at a secondary heat source to back it up.

As for gas; as far as the septics are concerned it is the latest best form of energy and is only getting more used. CORGI, or whatever they are nowadays would shit themselves at the non-existent working practices of installers though.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#57
@MrBane , I had an air source heat pump installed in Pennsylvania that was backed up with a BFO log fire when things got really bad. Water was on electric anyway.

I could have improved matters by building a lattice type structure around the external part of the heat pump to stop it getting covered in snow and ice. I would have but, we managed to escape to warmer Texas.

If I were you and I were looking at this let for the long term I would go and get a price on having an air source HP installed and look at a secondary heat source to back it up.

As for gas; as far as the septics are concerned it is the latest best form of energy and is only getting more used. CORGI, or whatever they are nowadays would shit themselves at the non-existent working practices of installers though.
That was something I had originally looked at, but it's the huge expense involved that stopped me. Huuuuuge.

Plus, realistically, the backup would be electric but I don't know if the two can be combined somehow, or if I'd need a wet system for the air source and then dry electrics, and how to control the two, etc, etc.
 
#58
I'll have a bit of rant about this whole off-gas thing if I may.

My main gaff is Gas combi. Comfortable, heat on demand, hot water on demand, low maintenance, etc. Not much money per month.

My place in Aviemore is off-gas (whole area is) and is electric only, because it's a holiday let and I can't be having any of this unreliable renewable pish. The house is cosy as required, hot water as required as long as the immerser has hot water in it. I pay around £3500pa for electricity (though I'm slowly beating this down through passive measures).

My neighbour in Aviemore relies on his log burner to heat the living room, kitchen and hall, and wraps up in the bedrooms, with a small Dimplex electric in each if needs must. He turns his immerser on at two points during the day and is careful with his water usage. His house is borderline comfortable until you go to the very cold bedrooms. He is in fuel poverty as he can't afford to heat his full house.

My friend in Aviemore is on a shared bio-mass boiler, with a family of five. She is in fuel poverty as she can't afford to heat her whole house and the biomass often has issues with it, as well as pellet shortages.

Another person I know in Aviemore runs on oil but has been left shy when refills haven't arrived on time during bad weather. He's not in fuel poverty, but his heating system has failed in the past due to lack of fuel.

I've looked at all the renewables available and had a survey conducted by the government backed home energy body (name temporarily escapes me) and they recommended air source heat pump, which can need a fair whack of electricity to run and isn't always efficient or able to heat a home fully.

Ground source heat pumps are now being reported as unreliable due to the heat in the ground not replenishing as fast as the system takes it out.

Solar is flakey at best and won't be able to provide for the demand during winter.

Wind isn't an option due to planning and again, reliability.

Battery storage isn't an option due to the ROI which I worked out at about 44 years.

So this idea of banning new builds from gas is ******* ludicrous. Especially in urban areas where you may not have the space nor infrastructure to support renewables.

It's another knee-jerk reaction to a bigger problem - rather than hitting home owners trying to heat their homes, focus instead on the bigger fish such as the tens of thousands of haulage trucks rattling around the country, the aircraft whizzing overhead, the huge tankers bringing in Chinese tat that ends up in landfill, the recycling plants that are just burning the waste, etc, etc.

There needs to be a complete culture change if we want to make an impact on emissions in this country - we're coming in to the decade of consumption and waste now that online shopping is pretty much at full fruition and as long as people decide they want to buy a £3 piece of plastic tat from around the other side of the world that'll end up in a landfill here, we've got much bigger problems than how people heat their homes.

In my opinion.
Do you at least get a courtesy reach around when you get fcuked so bad by the power company?
 
#59
On the subject of heat rising, a mate runs his ceiling fan in reverse on a slow setting and swears it helps make the room warmer.
Makes sense as it should blow the heat down off the ceiling. I would try it but swmbo will be "in a draught".
In the hangars at Lyneham we had a huge bank of radiators in the roof to try and keep them a bit warmer than the outside temperature. The hangars were still freezing. If you went on top of the aircraft wings it would be nice and warm. They introduced destratification fans, which blew the warm air down meaning the hangar was a lot warmer. The fans certainly work.

Unfortunately this had the undesirable effect of the poor WRAF stacker not getting cold when walking across the hangar.

I use a heat powered fan on my wood burner to blow the hot air out of the alcove he burner is in and across the room. This seems to help.

RP
 
#60
As others have pointed out, the easiest gains are made through insulation and draft proofing. My sister and her husband recently built a house in Sutherland using SIPS panels. It is completely sealed, not even the windows open, and all the ventilation is done through a heat recovery system. There is no gas anywhere near where they are (frankly, even telephone lines are scarce, and they don't work well) and heating is all electric, however, their electricity bills are very low as the whole system (insulation, draft proofing, heat recovery) is very efficient.
Which makes me think that if the Government are serious about banning gas-grid connections, then they are presumably planning a new generation of building regs to go with them? This is almost certainly going to have consequences for new house prices.
 

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