New GSM medal clasp award for crew of HMS DARING

#62
#63
#64
Do people actually read your blog? You have shown a massive amount of ignorance about the army on this site, Do people believe the shite on the pin striped line?
As of today, 1,602,130 in total, of which there were 53,000 or so in the last 4 weeks.

You sound bitter and angry again. Did the bad man force you to issue something from your stores?
 
#65
Here we go, the longish PinstripedLine blog article that would serve as my response - Thin Pinstriped Line: Sailing into Danger - Thoughts on the HMS DARING Medal.

To those wibbling about gongs, I'd ask them simply, if risk and rigour is what its all about, how come the Army got the same medal and appropriate clasp for doing a short term training team to Pakistan about 10 years ago?
You write very well and, in fairness (fwiw) I think you have made a good case for the specific nature of Daring's deployment meriting the award referred to. However, if this award sets a precedent, it may redefine the way awards are made in future.
I am aware that the following is slightly over-stated but it could be argued that our soldiers in Estonia are potentially at risk of attack. Or that those in Kenya are at risk from IS. Slight hyperbole on my part but there is a thin line between 'business as usual' and risky situations/environments: does risk now = awards?
 
#66
As of today, 1,602,130 in total, of which there were 53,000 or so in the last 4 weeks.

You sound bitter and angry again. Did the bad man force you to issue something from your stores?
Why would i be bitter and angry that you know very little about the army but pretend that you do? What was it you confidently stated a few years ago? 80% of the army were on 28k+ or something like that. I suppose your blog is read mainly by civilians so they wouldn't know if you were talking bollocks or not.
 
#67
You write very well and, in fairness (fwiw) I think you have made a good case for the specific nature of Daring's deployment meriting the award referred to. However, if this award sets a precedent, it may redefine the way awards are made in future.
I am aware that the following is slightly over-stated but it could be argued that our soldiers in Estonia are potentially at risk of attack. Or that those in Kenya are at risk from IS. Slight hyperbole on my part but there is a thin line between 'business as usual' and risky situations/environments: does risk now = awards?
I'd refer you to the case of GSM 08 -0 General Service Medal (2008) - Wikipedia designed to recognise specific operations.

There is a difference between going out on a deployment where there is a theoretical risk and one where there is an actual risk. This is why the Army issued it on several occasions already, including to Training Teams in Pakistan. So my view would be, if the OC of the operation can provide sufficient evidence to warrant the award, then so be it.

In the 73 years since the end of WW2, and thousands of operations, this is only the 2nd time the RN have had a specific clasp awarded. I don't think that this is indicative of a system that is setting a precedent - do you?
 
#69
Can i have one for sailing through there on 1000 tons of ammo and fuel with no escort?
 
#71
I'd refer you to the case of GSM 08 -0 General Service Medal (2008) - Wikipedia designed to recognise specific operations.

There is a difference between going out on a deployment where there is a theoretical risk and one where there is an actual risk. This is why the Army issued it on several occasions already, including to Training Teams in Pakistan. So my view would be, if the OC of the operation can provide sufficient evidence to warrant the award, then so be it.

In the 73 years since the end of WW2, and thousands of operations, this is only the 2nd time the RN have had a specific clasp awarded. I don't think that this is indicative of a system that is setting a precedent - do you?
The question of whether there is a potential, general or specific threat is key. In the RN press release, a member of Daring's crew is quoted talking about an 'inbound threat'. It would be interesting to know whether that's a situation where, for example, a fast craft is heading towards the ship; or whether the surface radar is showing objects that might pose a threat. The above sounds like being picky but it would be interesting to know more about the specific threats faced as opposed to the ship operating in a generally dangerous area (which is accepted).
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#72
The question of whether there is a potential, general or specific threat is key. In the RN press release, a member of Daring's crew is quoted talking about an 'inbound threat'. It would be interesting to know whether that's a situation where, for example, a fast craft is heading towards the ship; or whether the surface radar is showing objects that might pose a threat. The above sounds like being picky but it would be interesting to know more about the specific threats faced as opposed to the ship operating in a generally dangerous area (which is accepted).
Given how rarely the navy hand out gongs, I'm inclined to think that Daring faced a greater threat than just hang around vaguely in the vicinity of some missiles.
 
#73
The question of whether there is a potential, general or specific threat is key. In the RN press release, a member of Daring's crew is quoted talking about an 'inbound threat'. It would be interesting to know whether that's a situation where, for example, a fast craft is heading towards the ship; or whether the surface radar is showing objects that might pose a threat. The above sounds like being picky but it would be interesting to know more about the specific threats faced as opposed to the ship operating in a generally dangerous area (which is accepted).
Anti ship missiles
Suicide Craft
Drone Boats
Mines

All known to be in area at the time.

There is film footage out there of Saudi ships getting hit by drone boats - not pretty.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#74
I believe that most major NATO/BAOR field exercises planned for a certain number of fatalities and were rarely, if ever, disappointed.

I think you would find going Grunting in the darkness when armoured units are rampaging about to be a far more formative experience than Mr Teatowel Head doing his worst against your war canoe.
I'm pondering how you equate what must amount to fatal training cock ups to being repeatedly exposed to live direct/indirect enemy fire? Sitting in an Ops Room at Defence watches when you're lit up by radar is a unique feeling, particularly if people have been lobbing bricks about.

Or how you equate traffic accidents to the potential rather sudden arrival of ~20kg of HE at 900+ knots, that's going to devastate a ship with 180+ people afloat?

It's interesting to hear your, and others, side of a warry BAOR because up till now all I've ever heard from 10-15 year veterans of Germany was about alcohol, cars and money.
 
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#75
Anti ship missiles
Suicide Craft
Drone Boats
Mines

All known to be in area at the time.

There is film footage out there of Saudi ships getting hit by drone boats - not pretty.
Thanks for the info. You have made a logical case. The award makes me uneasy because of the 'bau' or abnormal circumstances issue discussed but I will have to concede the point, fwiw.
 
#77
I doubt there''s ever been a campaign medal or clasp awarded that wasn't hotly contested by those either ineligle or those who felt somehow more deserving than others.

The Accumulated Campaign Service Medal is for me one of life's anomalies as it permits qualifying campaign service from some theatres but not others. Similarly the retrospective award of the post-conflict South Atlantic Medal, 32 years later also niggles, but obviously not those now eligible.

It's tradition.
 
#80
Seems fair enough to me considering the crew spend a considerable amount of time stood to/action stations facing a real and immanent threat. The award recognises that, which is only right. Yet another thread where I'm perplexed by some peoples attitudes on ARRSE. It's only a clasp not a new medal.

Banging on about BAOR or Estonia makes no sense.
 
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