New GSM medal clasp award for crew of HMS DARING

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#41
Because Daring was deployed to protect merchant vessels at risk of finding themselves under missile attack, as did other frigates/destroyers later on, and warships from other nations?

I do not really get the reasoning, perhaps we should invite the views of people like
I don't understand your last sentence, give your post #19?

So, most of this revolves around a relatively constrained waterway, from the Internationally Recognised Transit Corridor in the Gulf of Aden (IRTC) up the Bab-el-Mandeb and what became the Maritime Security Transit Corridor and hence between two warring factions that lob annoying thing from unguided rockets to C802 at targets of opportunity/choice.

Yes, it's a Navy task, perfect for an AAW platform like a T45, but it's putting yourself between the threat and the vessels being protected when there was real missiles/weapons flying and incidents of waterborne IEDs. It was a considerable number of times, largely in support of UK trade, and that all adds to the cumulative risk to the ship.

It is a Navy task, yes; Was it risky, most likely, to what extent depends but the Houti's with a relative lack of sophistication managed to hit merchant vessels, Saudi military platforms and a UAE ship, so make of that what you will.

Sitting in a metal box floating on water, waiting for a potential incoming missile isn't fun no matter how sophisticated you pray your self defence measures are.
 
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#43
Any recognition by the MOD or the RN for persons of Native persuasion? No? Tut-tut.

Native American Heritage Month
Provided by ASA M&RA/ Army G-1 Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2016


What is it?
National Native American Heritage Month begins Nov. 1 each year to celebrate and recognize the accomplishments of this country's original inhabitants, explorers and settlers. Throughout the Army's history, Native Americans have served valiantly and with distinction in times of peace and war, while also fighting for the right to be an equal part of the nation. We recognize their rich heritage and honor their spirit and true devotion to this land. This year's theme is "Serving Our Nations."
What has the Army done?
Army leadership encourages the entire Army family to recognize and express appreciation for the past and present contributions that Native American Soldiers, civilians and family members have made. As a tribute to all Native Americans and their contributions, units, agencies and activities will conduct appropriate commemorative activities and events throughout the Army to celebrate National Native American Heritage Month. Collectively, the Army knows there is strength in diversity. In celebrating National Native American Indian Heritage Month, the Army recognizes that their rich heritage is a part of the diversity that this nation and the Army values.
What continued efforts are planned for the future?
We are "Army Strong," because we not only place great value in having different perspectives, approaches, and skills but also because we value having ethnic and cultural diversity. Throughout the year, we will celebrate and commemorate the diversity of the Army and leverage and draw strength from it. We encourage appreciation within the ranks of the rich diversity in the Army that is recognized around the world, a diversity that includes Native Americans.
Why is this important to the Army?
Throughout history, Native Americans have served in this nation's military with great courage and distinction. Native Americans have fought in every war since the nation's founding and have taken their rightful place as heroes in the nation's history. Today, more than 4,000 Soldiers of American Indian or Alaska Native descent serve in the Army. They are valued members of the Army team who continue a long legacy of professionalism, selfless service, dignity, and respect. 24 Native American have earned the Medal of Honor for their courage and devotion to the nation.

View attachment 347035
Did that picture come with the original story or is it one you found online? I am 99% sure that the 'Native American' in the picture is actually a white German re-enactor!
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#44
Any medals for the merchantmen? All they're armed with is high pressure fire hoses...
The merchantmen follow BMP5 and advisories from UKMTO, MSCHOA and UKMCC - they are told what to avoid and when. If they choose to follow more risky transits to save time and cut costs thats their risk. When they go into specific recognised threat areas they are escorted by the military units from Combined Maritime Forces (CTF150, 151, 152 - I can never remember which has the lead, an MCC dude will help me out).
 
#45
I don't understand your last sentence
I meant:

1. I do not understand why some operations get campaign medals or the GSM but other do not.

2. Those who have deployed on Kipion etc may have an insight into if or not it is comparable to other things people have got medals for.

3. If a missile attack had taken place and been splashed by Daring (or any other ship) would people feel differently? Why?
 
#46
Because Daring was deployed to protect merchant vessels at risk of finding themselves under missile attack, as did other frigates/destroyers later on, and warships from other nations?

I do not really get the reasoning, perhaps we should invite the views of people like @alfred_the_great?



Surely most campaign medals are?
So even I deserve a medal because by your reasoning I was signed up, doing duties and waiting for 3rd shock Army to rock up oh, I should get something for being in Northern Ireland, unarmed in a soft skinned landie before being told I would sleep with the Belfast Det, open gates no armed guards. Cheers, easy, where do I get the medals?
 
#47
The merchantmen follow BMP5 and advisories from UKMTO, MSCHOA and UKMCC - they are told what to avoid and when. If they choose to follow more risky transits to save time and cut costs thats their risk. When they go into specific recognised threat areas they are escorted by the military units from Combined Maritime Forces (CTF150, 151, 152 - I can never remember which has the lead, an MCC dude will help me out).
CTF150 is Indian Ocean and Red Sea, CTF152 is inside the Gulf, CTF151 is non geographic anti piracy.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#49
I meant:

1. I do not understand why some operations get campaign medals or the GSM but other do not.

2. Those who have deployed on Kipion etc may have an insight into if or not it is comparable to other things people have got medals for.

3. If a missile attack had taken place and been splashed by Daring (or any other ship) would people feel differently? Why?
I suggest it's been decided that whilst the general JOA is deemed 'risky' there was a considerable escalation and threat to shipping (things we may not see in open source?) and the ship and her crew, by the repeated passage, in relatively constrained waters, was exposed to a greater than expected threat but carried it off repeatedly, knowing each time raised the chances. I'm sure someone will know the process for deciding these things. Spoof its not.
 
#50
I don't understand your last sentence, give your post #19?

So, most of this revolves around a relatively constrained waterway, from the Internationally Recognised Transit Corridor in the Gulf of Aden (IRTC) up the Bab-el-Mandeb and what became the Maritime Security Transit Corridor and hence between two warring factions that lob annoying thing from unguided rockets to C802 at targets of opportunity/choice.

Yes, it's a Navy task, perfect for an AAW platform like a T45, but it's putting yourself between the threat and the vessels being protected when there was real missiles/weapons flying and incidents of waterborne IEDs. It was a considerable number of times, largely in support of UK trade, and that all adds to the cumulative risk to the ship.

It is a Navy task, yes; Was it risky, most likely, to what extent depends but the Houti's with a relative lack of sophistication managed to hit merchant vessels, Saudi military platforms and a UAE ship, so make of that what you will.

Sitting in a metal box floating on water, waiting for a potential incoming missile isn't fun no matter how sophisticated you pray your self defence measures are.
...Neither is sitting in a radio wagon, in the middle of a kraut forest , live on air, being DF'd by Warsaw pact forces, knowing that if it kicks off, your life expectancy is less than 5 minutes.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#51
...Neither is sitting in a radio wagon, in the middle of a kraut forest , live on air, being DF'd by Warsaw pact forces, knowing that if it kicks off, your life expectancy is less than 5 minutes.
And what actual weapons were being fired at that time? Or anytime in BAOR? Thats the difference I suggest.

You got your reward in cheap schlitz beer, curry wurst, tax free cars and LOA ;-)
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#54
Any recognition by the MOD or the RN for persons of Native persuasion? No? Tut-tut.

Native American Heritage Month
Provided by ASA M&RA/ Army G-1 Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2016


What is it?
National Native American Heritage Month begins Nov. 1 each year to celebrate and recognize the accomplishments of this country's original inhabitants, explorers and settlers. Throughout the Army's history, Native Americans have served valiantly and with distinction in times of peace and war, while also fighting for the right to be an equal part of the nation. We recognize their rich heritage and honor their spirit and true devotion to this land. This year's theme is "Serving Our Nations."
What has the Army done?
Army leadership encourages the entire Army family to recognize and express appreciation for the past and present contributions that Native American Soldiers, civilians and family members have made. As a tribute to all Native Americans and their contributions, units, agencies and activities will conduct appropriate commemorative activities and events throughout the Army to celebrate National Native American Heritage Month. Collectively, the Army knows there is strength in diversity. In celebrating National Native American Indian Heritage Month, the Army recognizes that their rich heritage is a part of the diversity that this nation and the Army values.
What continued efforts are planned for the future?
We are "Army Strong," because we not only place great value in having different perspectives, approaches, and skills but also because we value having ethnic and cultural diversity. Throughout the year, we will celebrate and commemorate the diversity of the Army and leverage and draw strength from it. We encourage appreciation within the ranks of the rich diversity in the Army that is recognized around the world, a diversity that includes Native Americans.
Why is this important to the Army?
Throughout history, Native Americans have served in this nation's military with great courage and distinction. Native Americans have fought in every war since the nation's founding and have taken their rightful place as heroes in the nation's history. Today, more than 4,000 Soldiers of American Indian or Alaska Native descent serve in the Army. They are valued members of the Army team who continue a long legacy of professionalism, selfless service, dignity, and respect. 24 Native American have earned the Medal of Honor for their courage and devotion to the nation.

View attachment 347035
That looks like David Gower after losing a bet.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#57
And what actual weapons were being fired at that time? Or anytime in BAOR? Thats the difference I suggest.

You got your reward in cheap schlitz beer, curry wurst, tax free cars and LOA ;-)
I believe that most major NATO/BAOR field exercises planned for a certain number of fatalities and were rarely, if ever, disappointed.

I think you would find going Grunting in the darkness when armoured units are rampaging about to be a far more formative experience than Mr Teatowel Head doing his worst against your war canoe.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#58
Just because it doesn't make prime time news, doesn't mean to say it's not going on: Yemen missiles and US responses

It's ongoing today and they have a few toys (Houthi capability) that they do use, frequently and with crap targeting, hence the need for escorts.
I'm quite sure the honours and medal committee went through everything needed to grant a clasp to the GSM so I am not worried about it. I am sure you realise though that there is no way that this could get posted on Arrse and nothing said, or did you expect a round of applause? :clap:
 
#59
Did that picture come with the original story or is it one you found online? I am 99% sure that the 'Native American' in the picture is actually a white German re-enactor!
Oi! Sleeves up and breechcloth down order to day. ;-)
 
#60
Here we go, the longish PinstripedLine blog article that would serve as my response - Thin Pinstriped Line: Sailing into Danger - Thoughts on the HMS DARING Medal.

To those wibbling about gongs, I'd ask them simply, if risk and rigour is what its all about, how come the Army got the same medal and appropriate clasp for doing a short term training team to Pakistan about 10 years ago?
 
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