New Garbage Level Vehicles

[bobthebuilder]

Yep, I reckon the noughties was about the last period when car manufacturers were still trying to make half decent products that’s last a few years.

When the PCP / leasing boom came post 2008 recession, the business model changed and so did the quality of the cars.

Yet Kia offer a 7-year unlimited mileage warranty.

 

[Ravers]

Yet Kia offer a 7-year unlimited mileage warranty.

Which raises the question:

If a budget Korean company can offer a 7 year warranty, why don’t Audi, BMW or Mercedes?

Because it goes against their business model.

 

[lastwalt]

Which raises the question:

If a budget Korean company can offer a 7 year warranty, why don’t Audi, BMW or Mercedes?

Because it goes against their business model.

I have a mate who is a mechanic at a well known (in Scotland) group of car dealers. At his place, they are official dealers for both Kia and Mercedes, and although he will mostly confirm peoples complaints about Mercs, he isn’t very complimentary about Kia’s either. In fact, he drives a Seat.

You are dead right about business model. Kia obviously have sufficient headroom in their gross margin to buy market share with their warranty liability.

 

[Cold_Collation]

I used to do some work for Hyundai U.K. The senior marketing guy who was there at the time is now at Kia, or was last time I looked.

One of the reasons for the long warranties is to counter perceptions of shoddiness - or, rather, to give people reassurance that if something goes wrong it’s covered. It’s a way to encourage brand take-up.

 

[jagman2]

Which raises the question:

If a budget Korean company can offer a 7 year warranty, why don’t Audi, BMW or Mercedes?

Because it goes against their business model.

There has been some well informed muttering lately of Mercedes commercial vehicles increasing their warranty period. Mercedes quietly understand that their product is not the best on the market and it is their aftersales service that gives them the edge.
Buyers only buy Sprinters because of the aftersales element. I have a dozen Renaults that are a much better van than a Sprinter and cost an awful lot less but you cannot get Renault Service to do anything useful at all.

That said, once a Sprinter is out of warranty MErcedes aren't that interested either.

 

[Ravers]

There has been some well informed muttering lately of Mercedes commercial vehicles increasing their warranty period. Mercedes quietly understand that their product is not the best on the market and it is their aftersales service that gives them the edge.
Buyers only buy Sprinters because of the aftersales element. I have a dozen Renaults that are a much better van than a Sprinter and cost an awful lot less but you cannot get Renault Service to do anything useful at all.

That said, once a Sprinter is out of warranty MErcedes aren't that interested either.

I was surprised how badly Sprinters rust. I couple years back, I went to a place that refurbs secondhand Ambulances and sells them on to Africa and other third world countries.

They had a yard full of 15 year old Ambulances and all the Mercs were completely rotten along the front bulkhead where the windscreen meets the bonnet.

Renaults were the showing the least amount of wear and tear.

My company ended up buying two Renaults. A further point being a new Renault Master engine costs about 1/4 of what a Sprinter engine costs, should you ever need to replace it.

Aren’t they all related anyway now? The Merc X Class is a Nissan Navara which has a Renault engine. I think the smaller A classes also have a Renault Clio engine.

 

[Cold_Collation]

I was surprised how badly Sprinters rust. I couple years back, I went to a place that refurbs secondhand Ambulances and sells them on to Africa and other third world countries.

They had a yard full of 15 year old Ambulances and all the Mercs were completely rotten along the front bulkhead where the windscreen meets the bonnet.

Renaults were the showing the least amount of wear and tear.

My company ended up buying two Renaults. A further point being a new Renault Master engine costs about 1/4 of what a Sprinter engine costs, should you ever need to replace it.

Aren’t they all related anyway now? The Merc X Class is a Nissan Navara which has a Renault engine. I think the smaller A classes also have a Renault Clio engine.

Vauxhall used rebadged Renaults for years.

 

[CptDanjou]

There has been a bit of an influx of garbage vehicles into the Aussie market lately:

Haval
Mahindra
Great Wall

then a resurgence of MG and LDV.

How does this garbage even get a foothold, has no one heard “you get what you pay for”.

These overpriced lawnmowers should surely carry a large price penalty for the amount of landfill they will take up making them uneconomical to sell.

I pass at least one or two cheap cnuts cutting about in these underpowered bricks and if a tradie rocked up at my gaff in one he would be gone faster than he arrived, imagine the garbage wiring if they don’t have the decency to buy a quality car.

Cheap foreign garbage made in India and China and other sh1tholes have no business importing their garbage vehicles.

They are total shite , nothing cheap about something that wont cut the mustard and has an appalling residual value , better to buy a late used Jap 4x4 than a new Chinese / Indian new one.

 

[leveller]

We've also noticed at work with the company cars, that the German stuff service bill is always around the £500.00 mark, with lots of 'service' parts replaced 'as routine'. The Ford's and Peugeots are around the 200-250 mark with a list of parts we could consider to replace advised. What the Germans consider a service part appears to be a broken/worn out part for others.

 

[Cold_Collation]

The likes of Bosch have been campaigning for years at the EU level to have the pattern parts people put out of business. It’s all about profit.

 

[jagman2]

I was surprised how badly Sprinters rust. I couple years back, I went to a place that refurbs secondhand Ambulances and sells them on to Africa and other third world countries.

They had a yard full of 15 year old Ambulances and all the Mercs were completely rotten along the front bulkhead where the windscreen meets the bonnet.

Renaults were the showing the least amount of wear and tear.

My company ended up buying two Renaults. A further point being a new Renault Master engine costs about 1/4 of what a Sprinter engine costs, should you ever need to replace it.

Aren’t they all related anyway now? The Merc X Class is a Nissan Navara which has a Renault engine. I think the smaller A classes also have a Renault Clio engine.

We have some Renault Master LMLs (lwb rwd version) and they are a better van than the Sprinters. More reliable, better on fuel and don't rust. Substantially cheaper but zero aftersales support.

Sprinters are now avilable with a new 2 litre engine. Mercedes won't say but I think its a Renault engine
Mercedes are using lots of Renaults engines across the entire range now and they are a better engine than Mercedes anyway

 

[CptDanjou]

what more do you want

Speed, comfort and handling .

 

[theinventor]

We've also noticed at work with the company cars, that the German stuff service bill is always around the £500.00 mark, with lots of 'service' parts replaced 'as routine'. The Ford's and Peugeots are around the 200-250 mark with a list of parts we could consider to replace advised. What the Germans consider a service part appears to be a broken/worn out part for others.

This was always going to be a consequence of of extending service / inspection intervals. If you discover a part that's got say 6-9 months left in it, then on a 12 month regime you've got to change it to get you reliably to the next inspection (unless it's a part that is smart enough to warn you it's near or at end of life, like some brake pads).
Go to a 24 month interval and you end up doing a lot of "unnecessary" replacement as a service item.

I do wonder if manufacturers got led down the path of longer service intervals as there's more guaranteed work each time the vehicle comes in.

 

[Stovepipe]

The likes of Bosch have been campaigning for years at the EU level to have the pattern parts people put out of business. It’s all about profit.

which is ironic, considering that Bosch don't make any filters/brake pads/service items themselves but get third parties like Mann to do it for them. **** them. If Bosch stuff was any good, we wouldnt need to buy from third party manufacturers.

 

[endure]

one of my daughters bought a Peugeot 306 Diesel 4 door hatchback

I had a company 306 D Turbo. Wonderful car apart from the day the camshaft belt went as I was overtaking on the outside lane of the M6

 

[Stovepipe]

I had a Passat estate that was a grand car to keep and run, until the water pump belt shat itself at 70 mph and killed the water pump and power steering pump. It also had an undercarriage system that appeared to eat bearings and bushings at a great rate. You never could change one, you always had to replace an arm with two in it. More money. I got a quarter of a million miles out of it before it went for scrap.

 

[CptDanjou]

This was always going to be a consequence of of extending service / inspection intervals. If you discover a part that's got say 6-9 months left in it, then on a 12 month regime you've got to change it to get you reliably to the next inspection (unless it's a part that is smart enough to warn you it's near or at end of life, like some brake pads).
Go to a 24 month interval and you end up doing a lot of "unnecessary" replacement as a service item.

I do wonder if manufacturers got led down the path of longer service intervals as there's more guaranteed work each time the vehicle comes in.

I`ve always seen long service intervals as BS to make the vehicles pence per mile operating cost look more attractive to fleet managers , if you are a car owner (rather than a lessee) it`s best to half the recommended mileages for oil and filter changes especially if you intend keeping the car for a few years.

 

[ABNredleg]

I’m not convinced that fuel cells are anything but a blind alley. Or, at least, a niche solution. The overall efficiency of the hydrogen system (generating electricity to electrolyse water to make hydrogen, compressing the hydrogen to a liquid, transportation, storage and use on a fuel cell) is somewhere around 30% of that of a BEV. Of course, there will be efficiencies to be found in that cycle, particularly around manufacturing hydrogen at the pump, but these are a long way off. Even then, the hydrogen generation and fuel cell processes will be very reliant on scarce precious metal. I think fuel cells will always be a niche solution.

IMHO the game changer in the haulage industry will be some kind of power-as-a-service model where ready-charged prime movers (or, maybe battery packs) are provided by a third party on demand, on route. It will take disruptive innovators to enter the market and make this happen, but I think it will. In 20 years, road haulage will look very different.

In the US, the Hindenburg explosion is a major impediment to hydrogen power since it is mistaken viewed as highly flammable and likely to explode. This is reflected in highly restrictive local and federal regulations that make it difficult to build the necessary infrastructure. It is illegal, for instance, for hydrogen powered vehicles to use the bridges and tunnels going into New York City. This is why there is only a handful of hydrogen powered vehicles on the east coast - California rewrote their regulations and thus have a small but thriving hydrogen industry.

 

[Stovepipe]

I`ve always seen long service intervals as BS to make the vehicles pence per mile operating cost look more attractive to fleet managers , if you are a car owner (rather than a lessee) it`s best to half the recommended mileages for oil and filter changes especially if you intend keeping the car for a few years.

Couldnt agree more.

 

[lastwalt]

In the US, the Hindenburg explosion is a major impediment to hydrogen power since it is mistaken viewed as highly flammable and likely to explode. This is reflected in highly restrictive local and federal regulations that make it difficult to build the necessary infrastructure. It is illegal, for instance, for hydrogen powered vehicles to use the bridges and tunnels going into New York City. This is why there is only a handful of hydrogen powered vehicles on the east coast - California rewrote their regulations and thus have a small but thriving hydrogen industry.

Why is it a mistake to view hydrogen as highly flammable?