New Fast Jets for Ireland?

Isn't Valley the closest RAF station to Dublin, yet no-one has brought Valley up. Considering the proximity to ireland, would have thought about Welsh, or even Isle of Man, option would be considered.
Valley would be a problem because of the number of flights generated by the training programme which would either get in the way or be adversely affected if there were (for some reason) multiple Q launches; also the popularity of putting a squadron of Typhoons in would probably be rather low, particularly amongst some of the locals who've been know to shine torches and use laser pens to show their displeasure at the noise...

Have to join NATO first and that would be a problem for the ROI.
Sorry, should've been clearer - I was talking about an EU mission modelled on AZOTIZE, rather than the creation of another NATO mission.

I'd imagine certain people in the EU would love to demonstrate that the EU can do NATO-type missions as it would feed into their agenda regarding forces under unified control, etc, etc. Although the CAOC would probably have to move to expensively-built EU-only facilities in France, Germany and somewhere else to show this new, efficient way of working...
 

ROMFT

Clanker
Have to join NATO first and that would be a problem for the ROI.
I'm even more out of touch with Ireland than the UK these days, but I think joining any EU military alliance/army will be a hard sell to the Irish electorate, never mind NATO.
 

ROMFT

Clanker
So you think that in 1945, Germany magically became our friend and gave up all pretensions of power for Europe?
The way that the last 70 odd years have panned out suggests otherwise...
Well I don't totally agree, not if we're talking about the normal, everyday Germans.
Anyway it's totally off topic & is maybe a subject for an apart thread, if one doesn't already exist.
If not, I might start it, but not now as i'm going into a couple of days evening & night shifts, maybe on the weekend.
 
I'm even more out of touch with Ireland than the UK these days, but I think joining any EU military alliance/army will be a hard sell to the Irish electorate, never mind NATO.
It all comes down to spending, in 99 Ireland signed up to NATO Partnership for Peace (PfP) programme and signed up to NATO's Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council (EAPC). On paper its a muddled compromise to avoid spending and at the same appease the voting public. Until they get an elected official who has the minerals to get some basics in place, then the shaking of fists at RAF air policing and whinging articles will carry on.
 
I'd have thought that politics aside, the answer lies in a joint RAF/IAC unit along the lines of 12 Squadron being a joint RAF/Qatari squadron. It wouldn't even have to be based in Ireland given the likely sort of targets most of the QRA effort would be launched against if putting a part-RAF manned unit into the RoI itself were too much for TDs to stomach. You could put a flight into Aldergrove, or have a squadron at Leeming or Yeovilton (don't tell Sharkey Ward...) if proximity to Dublin were thought important.


The main issue, as far as I can see, though, is that there doesn't - at least as yet - appear to be a stated requirement for a QRA force. Unless there's a fear that Boris will use the threat of leaving Dublin defended by some PC-9s as part of Brexit negotiations thus requiring the EU to implement an Irish Air Policing plan - Op AZ O' TIZE, perhaps? - modelled on the Baltic policing approach, then it seems a bit unlikely that the current scenario needs to change.

Any British boots, even part manned To defend the ROI, on the ground is politically utterly toxic - 1922 and all that.
 
Sorry, should've been clearer - I was talking about an EU mission modelled on AZOTIZE, rather than the creation of another NATO mission.

I'd imagine certain people in the EU would love to demonstrate that the EU can do NATO-type missions as it would feed into their agenda regarding forces under unified control, etc, etc. Although the CAOC would probably have to move to expensively-built EU-only facilities in France, Germany and somewhere else to show this new, efficient way of working...
French have touted that model
 

Bob65

Old-Salt
I'm even more out of touch with Ireland than the UK these days, but I think joining any EU military alliance/army will be a hard sell to the Irish electorate, never mind NATO.
Even if they were in favour, NATO has already admitted too many members who are unable or at least unwilling to make a fair contribution to the common defence. It should be an alliance of near-peers that can offer each other meaningful mutual assistance.
 
....At the moment, Ireland has a gentlemen's agreement with the UK to police its airspace.
Should it come to it, the UK will be defending the UK in Irish airspace. You Brits are well known for your benevolence and altruism but I don't see you dying for Ireland anytime soon. And rightly so.

Now Irelands in a bit of a bind, its legally a neutral,
No we're not. Neutrality has been government policy since WW2 but there is no actual law making us neutral.

but the EU under French pressure wants to step up its defence posture,
It's more like American pressure as the US is abandoning NATO and the French and Germans suddenly realise they'll be left swinging in a cold East Wind unless they get the EU's sh1t together. It's going to be difficult for Ireland to argue against participation in an EU defence arrangement and it will be great fun amending the constitution to allow such participation.

..
Easy fix would be to base an air policing detachment of French Fighters in Shannon as was originally mooted by the French - non starter, Dail Eirann won't allow foreign forces on Irish soil.
Not strictly true. The Defence Act 1954 prohibits anyone wearing foreign military uniform in the state without the permission of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The US has been transiting its troops through Shannon airport for donkey's years for instance. And various foreign military types attend training courses in Ireland. Allowing foreign forces to man bases in Ireland is another matter of course and this could be where the payback for the EU's support on Brexit begins.

Plan B could be a similar arrangement to the Irish Army, it gets a lot of equipment and training support from the French Army for some capabilities. Some gifted older Rafales with Green, white and orange roundels would do the job. Then all you need is some Irish pilots in the French training stream and a detachment for forward basing ground support for what is in actualite a forward based Irish manned French fighter detachment.
It will be easier to get them a little corner in Shannon or Knock. And maybe some naval facilities at Haulbowline.
 
I'm even more out of touch with Ireland than the UK these days, but I think joining any EU military alliance/army will be a hard sell to the Irish electorate, never mind NATO.
They won't have any option. If their EU lords and masters tell them to do something, they will do it. But at least they will be 'socking it' to the Brits.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
So you think that in 1945, Germany magically became our friend and gave up all pretensions of power for Europe?

The way that the last 70 odd years have panned out suggests otherwise...
I think the sentiment is correct but we will be at war with the Gross delEusian republic, so it will be the Daftwaffe pointing towards us. with DundersWehr units getting ready to storm accross the irish border then catch the Holyhead ferry to die gloriously in Scousergrad.
 
Even if they were in favour, NATO has already admitted too many members who are unable or at least unwilling to make a fair contribution to the common defence. It should be an alliance of near-peers that can offer each other meaningful mutual assistance.
In that case how was Luxenbourg one of the earlier members.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
Should it come to it, the UK will be defending the UK in Irish airspace. You Brits are well known for your benevolence and altruism but I don't see you dying for Ireland anytime soon. And rightly so.



No we're not. Neutrality has been government policy since WW2 but there is no actual law making us neutral.



It's more like American pressure as the US is abandoning NATO and the French and Germans suddenly realise they'll be left swinging in a cold East Wind unless they get the EU's sh1t together. It's going to be difficult for Ireland to argue against participation in an EU defence arrangement and it will be great fun amending the constitution to allow such participation.



Not strictly true. The Defence Act 1954 prohibits anyone wearing foreign military uniform in the state without the permission of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The US has been transiting its troops through Shannon airport for donkey's years for instance. And various foreign military types attend training courses in Ireland. Allowing foreign forces to man bases in Ireland is another matter of course and this could be where the payback for the EU's support on Brexit begins.



It will be easier to get them a little corner in Shannon or Knock. And maybe some naval facilities at Haulbowline.
fortunately health and safety legislation prevents us dying over someone else's airspace.

I don't think the US is abandoning NATO it is just re prioritising away from the EU who want to form their own grande armee again to march on moscow so the US is leaving them to it.
 
I was genuinely surprised that Ireland didn't see that one coming. I cannot imagine that it will be popular with the electorate either.
IIRC it's why they had to have a 2nd referendum on the EU treaty. The 1st one didn't have enough guarantees on neutrality so they had to amend the treaty to get it voted throigh
 
Not strictly true. The Defence Act 1954 prohibits anyone wearing foreign military uniform in the state without the permission of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The US has been transiting its troops through Shannon airport for donkey's years for instance. And various foreign military types attend training courses in Ireland. Allowing foreign forces to man bases in Ireland is another matter of course and this could be where the payback for the EU's support on Brexit begins.
Are there any legal restrictions on Irish citizens in the RIR and Irish Guards wearing uniform on leave in the Republic. Not that it would be particulary wise in some places. I saw an article a while back about a Southern Irish lad who was a corporal in 1 Para/SFSG whose fiancee was a Captain in the IDF. I wonder if he would be wearing his Parachute Regiment blues for his wedding.
 

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