New drink laws will "Lead to Violence".

#1
Plans to relax drinking laws in England and Wales will lead to a sharp increase in violent crime, judges have warned.
Rapes and serious assaults will soar if pubs are allowed to open longer, said the Council of Her Majesty's Circuit Judges, which represents 600 judges.

Police chiefs also warned the new drink laws, to start in November, will lead to a holiday-resort drinking culture.
Will they? I personally think not. Having spent many years on the continent (and I know there is a cultural difference in mentality) and find that if you let people drink all night they a)Don't go out until later in the evening and b)Pace themselves.

Also, it seems to work in Scotland Ok.

Your views?
 
#3
Sangreal said:
Plans to relax drinking laws in England and Wales will lead to a sharp increase in violent crime, judges have warned.
Rapes and serious assaults will soar if pubs are allowed to open longer, said the Council of Her Majesty's Circuit Judges, which represents 600 judges.

Police chiefs also warned the new drink laws, to start in November, will lead to a holiday-resort drinking culture.
Will they? I personally think not. Having spent many years on the continent (and I know there is a cultural difference in mentality) and find that if you let people drink all night they a)Don't go out until later in the evening and b)Pace themselves.

Also, it seems to work in Scotland Ok.

Your views?
Have you ever been to scotland? 8O

I am in two minds abou this.

On the one hand it may mean that people don't rush to get as many drinks in before last orders, and that not everyone will be kicked out at the same time (ie the havoc caused when all the clubs kick the punters out at 3am )

On the other hand, it will mean that more people will have access to alcohol at all times, which WILL lead to a greater number of addictions. It will also mean that people will be able to drink before they go to work, or that they have an especially late night (5-7? ) and end up either driving to work still half cut or actually working whilst still under the effects of alcohol.

I think what we should do is try and steer people away from the 'I'm gonna get leathered tonight' mentality and instead try and install a more continental (and dare i say it, more adult) approach to alcohol.

Although i don't think for a minute that the drinks industry or the taxman (greedy gordon!) would stand for that, what with the huge profits they make from the misery (and obvious joy) that alcohol brings.
 
#4
Agent_Smith said:
On the other hand, it will mean that more people will have access to alcohol at all times, which WILL lead to a greater number of addictions. It will also mean that people will be able to drink before they go to work, or that they have an especially late night (5-7? ) and end up either driving to work still half cut or actually working whilst still under the effects of alcohol.
Have you never heard of off-licences, supermarkets, corner shops, t'internet etc. Booze is freely aval already and there for anyone who wants to get addicted to it or drink it before work etc.

Keeping the bars open longer will not breed a new age of Rab Cs!

(And in answer to your first question, yes I have been to Scotland - many times - in fact every day!)
 
#5
Offies, super markets and other alcohol retailers (including bars and clubs) all hvae liscensed hours in which they are allowed to sell.

Therefore, alcohol is not freely available 24 hrs a day. Scotland is no exception to that rule. Trust me I know, i live there :D

And in the current state of play, alkies have to queue up outside the pub till 11am before they can get their next fix. Therefore, there are at least a few hours of the day that they cannot be sozzled and a. Being a serious risk to their own health, b. Being a serious pain in the arse to others!
 
#6
Agent_Smith said:
...Therefore, alcohol is not freely available 24 hrs a day...
Of course it is....unless you live in a town where you are obliged to empty the contents of your cans and bottles down your neck before leaving the shop!?
 
#7
My own view on this turns on a number of factors:

1. I'm a libertarian, and I broadly agree with the view that there should be a good reason why The State should be alloweds to interfere with the right of "A" to sell booze to "B" at any given time of the day or night.

2. However, I'm a pragmatic libertarian, and the people living near town centres and pubs have a right not to be bothered by drunks. You need to balance these two things, which as usual is where the devil is lurking in the detail.

We've all seen how a set kicking-out time is a uniquely brilliant way of organising large-scale public disorder in town centres; staggering them should make a difference. However, if the pubs don't play ball then that's not going to matter either.

Solution? Well as a pragmatic libertarian I believe that rights bring with them concomitant responsibilities. This means that if you are behaving like a lout after a night out on the pish you should be dealt with appropriately, not given a slap on the wrist by some magistrate. So I support alcohol banning orders, ASBOs, harsher sentences (custodial) for repeat offenders and the like rather than burdening the entertainment industry.

When I hear politicians and police chiefs (FFS) criticise the industry I cringe. Yes, they are part of the problem, but not as much as the inability of our criminal justice system to punish and deter the problem behaviour in the first place. If these kids knew that drunkenly fighting and swearing after closing time would lead to them being thrown into the drunk tank for 24 hours, followed by a rapidly administered and hefty fine, if not imprisonment via the courts then I daresay they wouldn't do it in the first place.

Or am I missing something?

Oh yes, the simple fact that most effective penal and criminal solutions almost immediately abrogate the "judicial activism" of those making decisions based on (you guessed it) the Human Rights Act, 1998.

V!
 
#8
Veg, quite right, however I don't think that pubs will have to orchestrate their closing times (if I get the gist of what you were saying) as people would leave when they 'run out of steam' - the image portrayed (by those opposed to an increase in opening hours) of continuous 24hr binge drinking, if hours were extended, is unrealistic.
 
#9
Sangreal said:
Agent_Smith said:
...Therefore, alcohol is not freely available 24 hrs a day...
Of course it is....unless you live in a town where you are obliged to empty the contents of your cans and bottles down your neck before leaving the shop!?
Semantics dear chap. That would be known as your own supply, which you can only by at certain times of the day from the a liscened retail outlet.

Therefore alchohol IS NOT freely available to buy 24hrs a day
 
#10
Sorry to state the obvious but...

Buying alcohol does not get you drunk!

Drinking alcohol does!

You are free to drink alcohol 24 hrs a day - whether you buy it in a pub and drink it on the premises or buy it in a shop and drink it elswhere at any time.
 
#11
I completely agree with Vegetius - introduce the drunk tank! If someone is drunk and incapable (or acting in a criminal manner), lock them up in the equivalent of a secure casualty clearing station. There can be medics on hand to deal with acute intoxication. They are detained for their own safety for a minimum period of 24 hours. So, for example, someone locked up on Friday AM will be released on Sunday at 0700hrs. If they have been naughty, then they can be released straight into the arms of the police and quickly processed by a same-day magistrate and prosecution team.

Fund this with a levy on the drinks industry, targeted at the vertical drinking establishments that contribute so much to the problem. Some will say that the industry is not part of the problem, and is merely providing what people want. However, cramming drinkers into standing-room-only venues with pounding music and ridiculous drinks promotions is not encouraging responsible drinking. Establishments could be taxed on a customer to floorspace ratio, with more genteel establishments (where you can actually sit and have a conversation harumph!) effectively rewarded.
 
#12
I live in Germany and study in Scotland so I know how both ways work. The German is definitely the more relaxed way of getting off your face and generally just drinking.

In Scotland I generally tend to plank my self in the student union at about 6 and get completely roseld by 12 and bugger off home. Here in Germany I go out at about 10 and go home at 1 to 01:30 no where near as pished as in Scotland just 'cos I have the feeling I don’t actually have to.

So there for IMHO this new law can only mean good things. How ever there is one problem with the British drinking mentality witch will have to be changed before the major problems will stop.

And I agree with Sangreal that the vision off people going on 24h drinking binges is unrealistic no one can go that long.
 
#13
I'm quite sure there would be a surge (for a month or so) increase in the amount of alcohol related problem. This would continue until people got used to the new system. After that however, hopefully the more adult mindset of a few social drinks over an evening rather than "as many as you can because it closes in 2 hours".

All that aside, I don't honestly see 24hour drinking quite as the sceptics seem to be portraying it, how many pubs do you know that will be able to afford to employ staff and meet the other costs associated with being open 24hours a day. Maybe some of the bigger chains (JD W'spoons et al) might be able to manage this, but I see even them drawing a line. I'd predict most pubs shutting at 4am.

Anyhow, as Sangreal said, we can already have 24hr drinking, you just need to keep the stock in at home.

(off to find a beer)
 
#15
Operator said:
I'm quite sure there would be a surge (for a month or so) increase in the amount of alcohol related problem. This would continue until people got used to the new system. After that however, hopefully the more adult mindset of a few social drinks over an evening rather than "as many as you can because it closes in 2 hours".
Yeah, they said that when they extended the drinking time from 22.00 hours to 22.30 hours and again to 23.00 hours with extra drinking up time. That was how many years ago? And the toll on society of drunken behaviour just keeps rising.

Face it. It will take a couple of generations before we get into a sensible mindset, if ever.. In the meantime large corporations, increasingly non-british, will make oodles of cash and robber brown will relieve them of large chunks of it.

Extending licensing hours has fcuk all to do with giving us the choice of when we drink - it's about raising profits and through that, taxes. Not to mention donations to Neue Arbeit.

Having said that, I'm in favour of it. Why should someone tell me when I can, and when I can't, sell or buy alcohol?

Anyone caught creating sh1t through drink should be forced to work in a hospital casualty department for at least six weekends within the year.
 
#16
FineX said:
And I agree with Sangreal that the vision off people going on 24h drinking binges is unrealistic no one can go that long.
Never been on a Rugby Tour then?!! :p

Seriously I feel the idea of extending the drinking hours to be a good one, there has been a lot of knee jerk reactions about forcast's of crime rates etc, but once people realise that you can have a few pints when you want and not have to race the clock them it will be fine.

I am sure initially the knobheads will spoil the party, but that is a British social problem not a drinking problem.

The morals and standards of this country is lower than a snakes belly and that comes from the dole dossing white trash Chav scum and the rise in immigrants who live by their own rules.

The aforementioned Chav scum will be the ones causing all the problems as the don't have to worry about getting up for work the next day!!.

Top Tip! - Go out for a drink on the days before Giro day. You should have a good night as the Chav's will be supping white lightning they have got their kids to rob from the local Spar!!!
 
#17
Sangreal said:
Sorry to state the obvious but...

Buying alcohol does not get you drunk!

Drinking alcohol does!

You are free to drink alcohol 24 hrs a day - whether you buy it in a pub and drink it on the premises or buy it in a shop and drink it elswhere at any time.
No, but i think you will find that most of the alcohol fuelled violence and damage occur when people have purchased alcohol from a drinking establishment (ie bar or club), rather than when they are drinking their own supply at home or a party. Therefore if you increase the time in which people can purchase (and consume) alcohol in pubs and clubs, your asking for more trouble, albeit slightly more spread out through the day (rather than kicking out time)

Anyway, this is detracting from the point...

Is this the governments way of bribing the drinks industry into staying quiet (relatively) about the smoking ban?

Does anyone know which brings in the most tax, Fags or Booze?
 
#18
I live in a town in the UK, where most of the bars are already open till 3 or 4am. I have been to these establishments once or twice, but left well before falling over, due to the fact that i would have needed a mortage to have carried on drinking.

Like Mr PVRd, I am also quite old, and much preffer the quieter, cosier atmosphere of the local. If it means that I will be able to stay in there longer, whilst consuming my favourite pint, without being kicked out at 11 and enticed into the youthful mayhem of the 'it' bars, then i am all for the new licencing laws.
 
#19
To put my tuppence in I agree with Stan and Operator. I think there will be an initial enthusiasm for it which will eventually recede. However, during this enthusiasm I think you will see an increase in yobbish and lager lout behaviour as it is simply like presenting a starving man with a feast, some people will gorge on it until they are sick (literally!). But I do think that after this gorging the majority of drinkers will automatically adopt a more relaxed attitude to drinking as there will be no rush to fit it all in before last orders.

tax though are as follows from the HM treasury website:

Cigarettes

An amount equal to 22 per cent of the retail price plus £99.80 per thousand cigarettes

Tha alcohol one is too detailed as tax depends on the alcoholic content click here http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...des&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_PROD_009531
 
#20
My understanding is that the vast majority of pubs have no intention of drastically extending their opening hours. Most pubs will probably end up having a late night session on Fridays and Saturdays where they stay open a couple of hours later than at present.
 

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