New Chinese Missiles on Display

#2
They're certainly making great technological strides-I wonder if their training and C3 is keeping pace?
 
#3
Wheres SmartAsCarrots? He usually has soemthing sensible to say on chinese topics...
 
#4

DH-10 GLCM



This digital camo seems to be the in this for the PLA, almost all the vehicles at the rehersal from missile launchers to APCs to MBT's had it.


I have more of these pics if anyone wants them?
 
#5
These kinds of things generally are not entirely what they seem. IIRC, at the 1999 show the missiles on parade were sheet steel tubes, not because they didn't have real ones but because they didn't want anyone looking at the real thing. The PLA's capabilities are improving in leaps and bounds, but it's going to be a few years before they have a western level of capability above Div level. Their defence industry is providing some decent kit these days but developing the doctrine to use it, getting people trained according to that doctrine and then establishing a suitable mindset at all levels all takes time.

More important than the kit is the structural adjustments they're making. They're going fully professional for the first time ever and have only recently reintroduced the professional NCO ranks and an appropriate training regime. This has allowed them to cut the numbers of officers to something sensible, and spend the money elsewhere - like textile exporters, Red Army veterans homes, toy factories and all the other traditional targets of Chinese defence funding. :)

ICBMs are a fairly minor concern to the PLA, the recent exercises across country were much more important to their development.
 
#6
"This is a sign they are sending a message to Washington that they have a counterstrike capability," said Andrei Chang, China defense analyst, Kanwa Information Center."

It is interesting that they have gone for this method of land-based assets rather than SLBM - it is cheaper but more vulnerable. ISTR that their SSBN programme is behind schedule. Operating on the premise that the PLA won't waste that much money deliberately it could mean that the SSBN programme is wll behind schedule or they are concentrating on SSN's.
 
#7
SmartAsCarrots- as I understand it, the PLA is moving toward a brigade based structure, with the CoC going Group Army-Bde-Bn, are they entirely abandoning the divisional level or are they retaining some divisions alongside bdes? Also higher levels of command-are Military Regions (eg Shenyang, Guangzhong) still operational commands, or is their role purely administrative/logistic now? I've seen reference to a 'Theatre War Command' somewhere, as a step toward a theatre-level joint forces command, was this just an experiment or is it part of their doctrine now?
 
#9
rickshaw-major said:
"This is a sign they are sending a message to Washington that they have a counterstrike capability," said Andrei Chang, China defense analyst, Kanwa Information Center."

It is interesting that they have gone for this method of land-based assets rather than SLBM - it is cheaper but more vulnerable. ISTR that their SSBN programme is behind schedule. Operating on the premise that the PLA won't waste that much money deliberately it could mean that the SSBN programme is wll behind schedule or they are concentrating on SSN's.
Pictures if three Jin SSBNs at Hainan Dao last year would seem to indicate otherwise, unless they are having problems with the SLBMs or with operating the Jins.
 
#10
rickshaw-major said:
"This is a sign they are sending a message to Washington that they have a counterstrike capability," said Andrei Chang, China defense analyst, Kanwa Information Center."

It is interesting that they have gone for this method of land-based assets rather than SLBM - it is cheaper but more vulnerable. ISTR that their SSBN programme is behind schedule. Operating on the premise that the PLA won't waste that much money deliberately it could mean that the SSBN programme is wll behind schedule or they are concentrating on SSN's.
A much more politicalized mind set...? Land based ICBM's can be secured by land forces in the case of unrest. A Nuke SSBN, by it's very nature, is out of reach and unfindable once at sea.
 
#11
Toxicseagull said:
I have more of these pics if anyone wants them?
would be great if you can especially if one is of the new MBT or UAV's they have
:)











Unfortunately no Type-99G2's..... :( guess htey are not finished with testing yet.
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#14
Joe_Private said:
rickshaw-major said:
"This is a sign they are sending a message to Washington that they have a counterstrike capability," said Andrei Chang, China defense analyst, Kanwa Information Center."

It is interesting that they have gone for this method of land-based assets rather than SLBM - it is cheaper but more vulnerable. ISTR that their SSBN programme is behind schedule. Operating on the premise that the PLA won't waste that much money deliberately it could mean that the SSBN programme is wll behind schedule or they are concentrating on SSN's.
Pictures if three Jin SSBNs at Hainan Dao last year would seem to indicate otherwise, unless they are having problems with the SLBMs or with operating the Jins.
They also have the luxury of a very large country into which they can silo delpoy their ICBMs. Also they don't seem to have a problem with NIMBY's :)
 
#15
More....







PHP:
[img]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/677/china2b15.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1909/263672874b200400568bb9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5892/263672894d917ef6924251.jpg[/img]
 
#16
Q: How do you tell defence equipment from non-democratic countries?

A: White-wall tyres........

Odo
 
#17
Bradstyley said:
SmartAsCarrots- as I understand it, the PLA is moving toward a brigade based structure, with the CoC going Group Army-Bde-Bn, are they entirely abandoning the divisional level or are they retaining some divisions alongside bdes? Also higher levels of command-are Military Regions (eg Shenyang, Guangzhong) still operational commands, or is their role purely administrative/logistic now? I've seen reference to a 'Theatre War Command' somewhere, as a step toward a theatre-level joint forces command, was this just an experiment or is it part of their doctrine now?
As I understand it, the shift to brigade-oriented command is going to be progressive and dependant on role. Brigade and Division formations will both remain and be deployed as appropriate to the task. Most comment on the recent Exercises under the banner of Stride 2009 have revolved around the new vehicles, the new EW/ELINT kit, the new C3 kit, etc., but the biggest surprise (to me, anyway) was that they were allowing comparatively junior levels of command to control the movement of major units – brigade HQs in all but name. Having said that the divs involved in Stride were quite definitely the First 15, the cream of Lanzhou, Shenyang and Jilin Military Districts. They’d be ideal if you were experimenting to see what would work before rolling it out nationwide.

Military Districts are going to remain important levels of command , according to a 1993 document called ‘Military Strategic Guidelines for the New Period’ which is behind the last decade of reform. You’ve got to remember that the PLA is a tri-service organisation and its various services coordinate (when they can be bothered talking to each other) at MD-level and above. Other things to bear in mind are: the range of missions that PLA has that wouldn’t fall under military control anywhere else; the creation of permanent specialised units for e.g. peacekeeping, where other nations would train and retrain units rotating through that role; the variety of terrain; and the sheer humungous size of the feckin place. The MDs also have a lot more direct responsibility for veterans’ welfare issues like pensions and retirement homes for ex-forces than pretty much any other country’s armed forces I can think of.

I’ve only seen passing reference to Theatre War Commands myself, but the phrasing strikes me as meaning this is intended to be an ad hoc arrangement formed and disbanded as needed – much like the Army level in UK forces traditionally was. The Beihang Army used a similar term as part of it’s evolving doctrine for defending the late Qing Empire, much good it did them.

I know armchair_jihad has some contacts in the PLA through his work there; perhaps he might be able to shed some light on their thinking at higher levels?
 
#18
Kitmarlowe said:
rickshaw-major said:
"This is a sign they are sending a message to Washington that they have a counterstrike capability," said Andrei Chang, China defense analyst, Kanwa Information Center."

It is interesting that they have gone for this method of land-based assets rather than SLBM - it is cheaper but more vulnerable. ISTR that their SSBN programme is behind schedule. Operating on the premise that the PLA won't waste that much money deliberately it could mean that the SSBN programme is wll behind schedule or they are concentrating on SSN's.
A much more politicalized mind set...? Land based ICBM's can be secured by land forces in the case of unrest. A Nuke SSBN, by it's very nature, is out of reach and unfindable once at sea.
It's probably a bit of both. PLAN is focussing on interdiction in the China Sea - closing the door to US or Japanese naval intervention in any conflict with Taiwan. They want to reclaim the islands not destroy them, so SSNs make more sense than SSBNs.

The political leadership got a hell of a fright in 1989 when they sent the martial law order out to the PLA and got a lukewarm reception - the commander of 38th Army even wrote back saying he didn't think it a good idea and urged them to rethink. There was a lot of 'thought-work' done in the aftermath, so restricting the freedom of action in commanders of strategic assests like nuclear missile submarines is probably a high priority.
 
#19
How much do they intend to downsize the Army by? Are they going down the same road as the Russian's and developing a three year trained NCO cadre? How do they plan to instill a more "independent" way of thinking among junior offices? Will their be a two tier Army? One for the rather interesting tasks, well payed and supremely loyal to the party and another less well trained but ready if the state is truly threatened?
Apologies for all the questions :)
 
#20
"This is a sign they are sending a message to Washington that they have a counterstrike capability"

Bet ya India is more worried then Yankland.
john
 

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