New Army recruitment campaign

[John G]

... neither of us have the data.

Nor, rather more importantly, does anyone else however inexcusable that may be.

 

[CAARPS]

But is it clearly off putting? The evidence lies in the data, not in our opinnions and neither of us have the data.

My wider issue with this campaign and the new one is the lack of testing. These days, ad messaging can be tested in small sample campaigns before going large. I don’t think this happens; the tendency is towards testing with focus groups and then going global.

Once again, without going down the what is or isn’t an Aplication malarkey. This is the third year of the Belonging campaign (Belonging, Find where you belong, Your army needs you to belong) and applications (registrations/people filling in stuff online to try and join) have gone up each year, so the campaign is having a level of success in the initial attraction space. Including some significant increases in the first week of the campaign this year.

Whether, they are the right people or not, I gave my opinion extensively earlier in the thread, but to summarise, in my opinion, the answer is not.

 

[stacker1]

I’ve not told you anything. I’ve stated a view which is worthy of debate. The core of that view is that the pay and conditions offered by the Army is significantly better than anything else available to recruits. The fact that the Army blows that attraction by treating people badly doesn’t detract from the package.

So go on; what would you offer to soldiers as part of a remuneration package that attracts and retains?

You are the one who defaults to ad hominem abuse but you can’t take it.

You have stated a view that is so far out of touch, you might as well be the SEAC. You really have no idea what soldiers have or want. I will tell you again that the "package" is fairly average. We dont get subsidised accommodation because its a bonus but because it there would be even less soldiers without it. Civvies can get council housing or housing benefit so why pretend the MOD are given us anything special.
Almost all the the bits of the "package" you mention are utter horseshit. Its like you are part of a MOD propaganda unit.

How many times do you need to be told? Stop treating soldiers like cnuts and you will see an improvement in retention leading to an improvement in recruitment. We have just had numerous posts on room inspections, it 2019 and we still have fuckwits who think its acceptable for grown men, some of whom have numerous tours under their belt to be stood by their bed while Lt Cuntybollocks inspects their bedding. Its not as if the idea is of a massive cost to the MOD.

Im all for insults, but at least back them up, how would civvies know that the Army lyng when its indication Muslims can stop a patrol for their prayers?

 

[retread2]

They have it in their power to stop treating serving soldiers like cnuts.
They wouldnt have half the problems with recruiting if they could sort out retention.

Addressing recruiting without fixing retention first is like trying to fill a bath without putting the plug in.

 

[bobthebuilder]

You have stated a view that is so far out of touch, you might as well be the SEAC. You really have no idea what soldiers have or want. I will tell you again that the "package" is fairly average. We dont get subsidised accommodation because its a bonus but because it there would be even less soldiers without it. Civvies can get council housing or housing benefit so why pretend the MOD are given us anything special.

Council houses and housing benefits are not provided by your employer though are they?

When you finally leave the Army, try negotiating subsidised accommodation, food, leave travel, six weeks leave, gym membership, POETS days etc etc from your new employer. Try negotiating a residence to workplace allowance from your employer and, in the highly unlikely event that you are successful, try getting away with not paying tax on it. And, from the perspective of an 18 year old with no qualifications, consider negotiating anything other than an on-call, zero hours contract that pays minimum wage.

I've never suggested that you get subsidised housing as a bonus. In fact, I said the opposite. it is part of a comprehensive remuneration package that has to be considered as a whole. The military package isn't "fairly average", it's unique; you can't cherry pick or ignore the value of individual elements. So answer the question; how would you remunerate soldiers to attract and keep them?

The message about treating soldiers as c**ts is a stuck record as is the crap about room inspections. As others have pointed out, stand-by-your-beds room inspections haven't been carried out in some units for decades. So why does your regiment carry on doing them? Some regiments and corps have been treating their soldiers as a high value resource for years; why isn't the RLC? From my perspective as a Sapper, if you've spent 18 months and a great deal of money training a soldier to be a surveyor (or any other trade), why would you screw him around with room inspections when he could be the expert that allows you to deliver your mission?

 

[stacker1]

Council houses and housing benefits are not provided by your employer though are they?

When you finally leave the Army, try negotiating subsidised accommodation, food, leave travel, six weeks leave, gym membership, POETS days etc etc from your new employer. Try negotiating a residence to workplace allowance from your employer and, in the highly unlikely event that you are successful, try getting away with not paying tax on it. And, from the perspective of an 18 year old with no qualifications, consider negotiating anything other than an on-call, zero hours contract that pays minimum wage.

I've never suggested that you get subsidised housing as a bonus. In fact, I said the opposite. it is part of a comprehensive remuneration package that has to be considered as a whole. The military package isn't "fairly average", it's unique; you can't cherry pick or ignore the value of individual elements. So answer the question; how would you remunerate soldiers to attract and keep them?

The message about treating soldiers as c**ts is a stuck record as is the crap about room inspections. As others have pointed out, stand-by-your-beds room inspections haven't been carried out in some units for decades. So why does your regiment carry on doing them? Some regiments and corps have been treating their soldiers as a high value resource for years; why isn't the RLC? From my perspective as a Sapper, if you've spent 18 months and a great deal of money training a soldier to be a surveyor (or any other trade), why would you screw him around with room inspections when he could be the expert that allows you to deliver your mission?

This is exactly what I mean about you being out of touch, its because we are in the army we cant get either council houses or housing allowance, as for residence to work, Im sure a mover and shaker in the business world is well aware soldiers dont get it if its under 3 miles, oh what a ******* surprise, most pads houses are within the 3 mile limit, those that are not are generally houses that the army has provided the soldiers.

Once again because you are an out of touch belter who clearly knows **** all about the wants and needs of soldiers.
Subsidised accommodation: The lower paid can get a council house or housing benefit, most of what the army provides is shite, including the fabled SLAM blocks.
Subsidised food: Most pads never use it, so thanks for nothing, the singlies generally have to put up with whatever slop they are given and cant cook in the blocks.
Leave travel, whoopie ******* do, most civvies live where they want so dont have to live in the arse end of nowhere because the army move them around again.
Leave, how many time do you need telling, you ball-bag? Add up the weekends soldiers lose on duty and exercise and see how that compares to the freedom civvies have, incidentally my wife works for B&Q and gets over 6 weeks holiday a year.
Gym membership WOW WEE. The fact that most soldiers either dont regularly use the gym or use because its part of them keeping fit seems to have escaped you.
POETS? Big ******* deal, civvies work the hours they are contracted for, ask your average tom how many hours a week he does when on duty and then work out how many 1300hrs friday knock offs are needed to get that time back.

As for the RLC, Ive also served with the infantry, including one unit that makes its singlies box up their room for block leave,, who the **** comes up with these ideas? There are plenty of other stories on here from a variety of capbadges detailing the pathetic treatment of soldiers, so you **** off if you think you are fooling anyone by pretending it must only be the RLC.

 

[stacker1]

Addressing recruiting without fixing retention first is like trying to fill a bath without putting the plug in.

Try telling bob the business man that. Apparently the package (including subsidised accommodation) should keep us all happy).

 

[endure]

It seemed a bit wide of the mark. not once in the years I was at sea with Iranians did I see them down tools on shift and get our the prayer mats. They all used a dispensation that on duty, they were permitted a much reduced prayer that could be recited standing at their station, and when things got sporty they were exempt praying.
May be different for Sunni, but that was the Shia way.

The same with Pakistani crew. The position of Mecca would be part of the noon announcement but they all did their praying in their own time.

 

[bobthebuilder]

This is exactly what I mean about you being out of touch, its because we are in the army we cant get either council houses or housing allowance, as for residence to work, Im sure a mover and shaker in the business world is well aware soldiers dont get it if its under 3 miles, oh what a ******* surprise, most pads houses are within the 3 mile limit, those that are not are generally houses that the army has provided the soldiers.

Once again because you are an out of touch belter who clearly knows **** all about the wants and needs of soldiers.
Subsidised accommodation: The lower paid can get a council house or housing benefit, most of what the army provides is shite, including the fabled SLAM blocks.
Subsidised food: Most pads never use it, so thanks for nothing, the singlies generally have to put up with whatever slop they are given and cant cook in the blocks.
Leave travel, whoopie ******* do, most civvies live where they want so dont have to live in the arse end of nowhere because the army move them around again.
Leave, how many time do you need telling, you ball-bag? Add up the weekends soldiers lose on duty and exercise and see how that compares to the freedom civvies have, incidentally my wife works for B&Q and gets over 6 weeks holiday a year.
Gym membership WOW WEE. The fact that most soldiers either dont regularly use the gym or use because its part of them keeping fit seems to have escaped you.
POETS? Big ******* deal, civvies work the hours they are contracted for, ask your average tom how many hours a week he does when on duty and then work out how many 1300hrs friday knock offs are needed to get that time back.

As for the RLC, Ive also served with the infantry, including one unit that makes its singlies box up their room for block leave,, who the **** comes up with these ideas? There are plenty of other stories on here from a variety of capbadges detailing the pathetic treatment of soldiers, so you **** off if you think you are fooling anyone by pretending it must only be the RLC.

All i can say is Slacker, you’ve got a big shock coming when you leave. There are many civvies commuting 50-100 miles a day, two hours each way burning a third of their after tax income on commuting. There are also many who work way beyond their contracted hours without overtime. And plenty who work weekends on call without any leave entitlement because they’re on zero hours contracts. The grass is far from green in the outside as many former servicemen and women quickly find out. Not that that is really relevant; your package is baselines by the AFPRB who conclude that it is competitive.

Nor is it really pertinent to my core point, which is that package is not the root cause of poor recruiting and retention. In fact, the opposite; it’s competitive. If you think otherwise, go ahead and suggest what you would change in the package to make it more attractive. And don’t suggest doubling pay as that’s clearly impossible.

Personally I’d suggest taking out all of the lifestyle allowances (leave travel, food and accommodation subsidies, travel to work, allowance, CEA etc) and switch the money to pay.

******* soldiers around has nothing to do with pay package. Nor has making them work weekends without time off in lieu, canceling leave and courses at the last minute, room inspections, cutting cords off kettles and all those other stupid ideas. Those are all leadership and management issues pretty much entirely self inflicted at regimental duty.

 

[stacker1]

All i can say is Slacker, you’ve got a big shock coming when you leave. There are many civvies commuting 50-100 miles a day, two hours each way burning a third of their after tax income on commuting. There are also many who work way beyond their contracted hours without overtime. And plenty who work weekends on call without any leave entitlement because they’re on zero hours contracts. The grass is far from green in the outside as many former servicemen and women quickly find out. Not that that is really relevant; your package is baselines by the AFPRB who conclude that it is competitive.

Nor is it really pertinent to my core point, which is that package is not the root cause of poor recruiting and retention. In fact, the opposite; it’s competitive. If you think otherwise, go ahead and suggest what you would change in the package to make it more attractive. And don’t suggest doubling pay as that’s clearly impossible.

Personally I’d suggest taking out all of the lifestyle allowances (leave travel, food and accommodation subsidies, travel to work, allowance, CEA etc) and switch the money to pay.

******* soldiers around has nothing to do with pay package. Nor has making them work weekends without time off in lieu, canceling leave and courses at the last minute, room inspections, cutting cords off kettles and all those other stupid ideas. Those are all leadership and management issues pretty much entirely self inflicted at regimental duty.

I guarantee you when I leave Ill be on more take home pay than my OC.
There well may be lots of civvie travelling 50 to 100 miles a day but they certainly do not make up the majority, they will also be compensated for it otherwise they wouldn't bother.
You lie to pretend that you know all about the civvie world, the fact that most of my family have a military background and all seem to settle into civvie life without much of a problems sort of indicates you are talking bollocks.
AFPRB? That will be the people who thought it was perfectly fine that soldiers lived in shitty run down accommodation that you legally couldnt hold prisoners in because the army stop charging accommodation? The same people who on Herrick 6 agreed that we should have unpleasant working allowance only for it to be withdrawn by Herrick 8?
The package isnt competitive is it, you ******* spastic? For someone who likes to pretend hes a businessman I would have thought that 20+ years of shit recruiting and retention would show that its far from competitive.

You'll find these leadership and management issues are fairly much standard across the army, that why FYB has 60000+ people liking it and the British army continues its decades long problem of recruiting and retention.

 

[Kroneit44]

Addressing recruiting without fixing retention first is like trying to fill a bath without putting the plug in.

Some of the retention issues eg nights out of bed are spawned from the lack of recruiting and subsequent manning.

 

[Kroneit44]

As for the RLC, Ive also served with the infantry, including one unit that makes its singlies box up their room for block leave,, who the **** comes up with these ideas? There are plenty of other stories on here from a variety of capbadges detailing the pathetic treatment of soldiers, so you **** off if you think you are fooling anyone by pretending it must only be the RLC.

I don't think he's even saying its the whole of the RLC, just the bits you've served in. As for the infantry, what did you expect? Personally I see a lot of value in by your beds inspections, as long as they're in works time.

 

[Kroneit44]

I guarantee you when I leave Ill be on more take home pay than my OC.

...until he/she gets out the the balance is likely to swing the other way. I'm with you in doubting the ability of the AFPRB, some of their output is woeful, though it is only recommendations

 

[stacker1]

I don't think he's even saying its the whole of the RLC, just the bits you've served in. As for the infantry, what did you expect? Personally I see a lot of value in by your beds inspections, as long as they're in works time.

I've served in or with 1, 2, 4, 6, 16, 25 and 27 its nor like it rare.
I can't see any value in bed inspection, do you see any other job doing it? The only reason we do it is because we always have done it.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

So asking the locals"which way is the beach?"in a loud voice?

Quite handy in 1944, 1956 and 1982 I think.

 

[Tired_Tech]

Was the bullshit any different from the Frank campaign which suggested that soldiers had the pick of fit, sexy women when the reality was the only lay most got near was sloppy seconds from the Squadron bike?

you might want to ask for your money back.

on the back of the Frank videos i had a career including skiing. (Arctic training, alpine and down hill), kayaking and canoeing in norway, South america, canada etc, sailing in thailand, arctic, iceland, Baltic, er, parachuting at bad lippespring. Hill walking in germany, spain, france, america.

For a few years I enjoyed the company of a lovely Norwegian lass, who I met in otta. She was qualifying as a rafting guide i was paddling the area.

And I smashed a boxhead.

Never signed out the green fleet.

You should have tried harder

 

[Tired_Tech]

Addressing recruiting without fixing retention first is like trying to fill a bath without putting the plug in.

We'll have none of that common sense here.

drill the men until morale improves. Throw in a few inspections too.

 

[Kroneit44]

I've served in or with 1, 2, 4, 6, 16, 25 and 27 its nor like it rare.
I can't see any value in bed inspection, do you see any other job doing it? The only reason we do it is because we always have done it.

How else do you ensure that the lads aren't absolute fez's? If it's tied to bullshit though, get rid. I got a reshow for not having my bananas in the fridge...which fucks bananas.

 

[Tired_Tech]

I don't think he's even saying its the whole of the RLC, just the bits you've served in. As for the infantry, what did you expect? Personally I see a lot of value in by your beds inspections, as long as they're in works time.

if that's the only way you can think of to get quality time with the lads, you're just not trying.

 

[Tired_Tech]

How else do you ensure that the lads aren't absolute fez's? If it's tied to bullshit though, get rid. I got a reshow for not having my bananas in the fridge...which fucks bananas.

I was told to put my books in size order...

not by subject as they were.

fez bags are best found through impromptu walk rounds. Also selecting and supporting good block screws.

I'd pop in to troop the troop lines every now and then, if the standard was poor there's be a rooms open inspection by COP. Announced at pm knock on.

rigid cleanliness standards in work. Clear desks, etc. And frequent interaction with the jncos.