New Allowances and the paperwork mountain!!!

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Crusty(LE), Apr 24, 2006.

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  1. I work in a tri-service unit and have just came back from a 7 day trip to the USA. I currently work one week in every five in the USA. RAF (parent unit) will now no-longer support us Army chaps as they have moved to JPA, so now have to claim etc through local Army unit for admin.

    I've been doing this trip for the last 2 years + - no probs, this is the first trip after the new rates/process for claims have come in:

    Previously I claimed Hotel + Daily Subsistance + IE - one form (1771), one 'local authority form', one copy of said 1771 to budget manager - nothing else - cash in the bank.

    Rant on....

    This time:

    3 x 1771 sheets, detailing each meal and each incidental expense claimed per day(no 1771 continuity sheets available)

    27 receipts marked up with the date and amount highlighted - presented in chronological order (Specifically told this).

    4 statements certifying a genuine copy of receipts (where a photocopy was necessary as the total was split over 4 individuals)

    2 statements certifying what was spent when the printing on the receipt was not quite legibale.

    One authorising letter (signed by me authorising the trip)

    One copy of my flight and hotel itenary

    One letter stating why the accomodation I stayed in could not be booked through CHBS

    One copy of my projected mobile phone bill - to prove the cost of phone calls made while abroad.

    Oh, and I now have to photocopy ALL of them so that the budget manager (tri-service unit) has visability of my claims!

    I've got them infront of me now - 80 pieces of paper for a one week trip. It has taken me the best part of 2 1/2 hours to fill this lot in. Somebody is having a laugh!!

    They are also paid back at the FFR rate, not the exchange rate, which the cash was drawn out in.

    OK, i could have done the paperwork day-by day, to ease the burden, and I did keep a daily record of what was spent.

    I look forward to a fortnights time when I'm off to the USA again.... deep joy!

    Utter, utter b@llicks!!!

    - Rant off!!

    Very Crusty SO2
  2. JPA - Gotta love it. And who says that they will need less clerks. You are an experienced SO2 - imagine some young Pte or a sproggy 2Lt doing all that (and doing it right). AGC(SPS) will be around for a long time yet!!

    BTW - does anyone remember the plan for the paperless office by, when was it - 1985? :roll:
  3. Bu*ger! I missed one... forgot to submit a Pt 2 Order warning in/out 'certificate' before I went, so I'll have to do that as well...
  4. Crusty, thats your side of the problem which is bad enough BUT the RAO who has to check and pay your claim and the other 800 people he/she administers now has to take 200% longer to process each claim! No extra personnel for the extra work so apparently sleep is now a priviledge not a right.

    PS you can claim the difference 'tween FFR and your actual exchange rate, see your RAO.
  5. Crusty - I'm probably telling you to suck eggs, but this is precisely the sort of stuff that you need to get on ArmyNET.

    I strongly suggest you use the 'Feedback to CGS' thread.

    If you are unhappy about seeing your name in lights, PM me and I'll use your post here and explain accordingly.

    Kind regards

  6. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator


    Don't wait. Just do it. Another example of the ease that JPA will bring to all of us thieving gits (well, by inference, with the amount of proof we are now required to provide, we are... aren't we?) who travel on the MODs behalf, in getting money back out from the system.

    Some Qs

    Anyone got any idea how many people were done for false claims last year that required the system to change so markedly on level of proof?

    Has anyone done a cost benefit of time taken up for the assembly and processing for claims? 2 1/2 hours of SO2 time = how much of a % of an average claim?

    When do time sheets come in to prove what we do on a hour by hour basis? You may laugh but with claims and other "business model" best practises (remember a business is out to maximse profits - not to act on its employees best interest) coming in, why not?

    Or am I just being facetious? :roll:

    edited once for mong fingers
  7. it is a pain isn't it, all this paperwork would think they would just put a big bucket of cash next to the guardroom and you could simply dip in and take what we needed on the way back in to cover our costs. Reality is that even the MOD civvies are expected to complete travel claims themselves - and they have to or don't get paid.

    Still, this year you do at least have a SPS clerk to write out and complete the reverse of the 1771 with all the hard bits like rates, different allowances etc so all you have to do is simply sign for the wonga. Next year you will be spared all this inconvenience, you can stand in line waiting behind 29 others (1 - 30 in Inf units) to get on the JPA terminal, grow a beard waiting for it to let you enter your claim, work out for yourself what you are entitled to and then you get the added value of having to retain all the receipts yourself for a year in case your claim is one of the 5% called forward for audit. Hopefully your travel claim will eventually be paid into your bank to recompense your expenses (but no local cash payment of claims though).

    Of course if you get stuck with that difficult claim with complicated details such as NRSA for USA etc you can always pop down to the admin office for someone to do the hard bits for you. You'll find that when you do you'll find it's empty - the clerks are ALREADY being cut in my unit to pay for the JPA kit you can't operate without them. No Docs Sgt now required by JPA so he has gone (are we shredding the conduct sheets etc then ?) and no Pay Sgt, this post goes in 2 years.

    And this is called progress. :roll:
  8. I've worked in several large civvy companies. The standard practice for regular travellers was to issue a corporate AMEX card or similar. At the end of the month I submitted a form significantly less complex than a 1771 and appropriate receipts. NO money ever left MY account. Compare and contrast the Christmas period here where I was over £500 adrift in unpaid claims - the one clerk who dealt with claims was sick, no other clown felt able to look in her in-tray. Why should I subsidise HMG for hotels etc - Why not have CHBS pay for them in the same way that flights and hire-cars are booked. Add a fuel card and all thats left is casual meals to pay for.

    The rest of this papertrail nonsense is created INTERNALLY. Paymaster moans about not having the staff to check this added paperwork - well we should just plain STOP doing it and tell the wasters who come up with these "anti fraud" measures to get real. All it needs is 1 form and receipts to cover the expense. Signature from the claiments boss that the expense was A reasonable and B "legit". Done and dusted. Pay wallahs simply pay the bottom line. Externally audit a small percentage for fraud. thats all it needs. [marq=up]The rest is job creation by the talentless[/marq].
  9. They also have to keep all receipts etc safe and sound for 3 years in case of an audit 8O 8O
  10. Quill that's exactly what is meant to happen when(if) JPA works, it it this interim rubbish that is causing all the extra work!
  11. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Then if that's the case, why are we having to jump through all the hoops now in regard to the burden of proof to get the money out the system?

    Why aren't we staying with a system that works until the day JPA is rolled out to us? Which muppet down at Worthy Down will be getting an award for this period of madness for the fact that the number of claims made will go down; not because the number of journeys made on behalf of MOD drops but because of the complexity of the system?

    This is another small minded attempt to screw money back rather than paying allowanaces agreed to be reasonable previously.

    Two solutions

    1. Fcuk them - don't do trips.

    2. Do as members I know of the RAF have done and demand a credit card that expenses can be made up front, rather than to the detriment of their pocket.

    I don't see why these days why we should be monetarily disadvantaged for services rendered. If you are travelling to the States for a week or more at a time, you really can be.

    Want to run the Services like a business? Then start paying up like one.
  12. Aswell as the extra paperwork they have started making us do, they have also managed to cut the amount of money we are able to claim. I have just come back from a trip with some civil servants and when we went out for a meal in the evening they do not have a limit on how much they spend, as long as it is a reasonable amount and they provide receipts. They are also able to buy upto a bottle of wine to drink with their meal as long as it is reasonable. I enquired what I was able to claim from my RAO and was told I can get upto a maximum of £21 (previously we could claim £25 subsistence) to pay for my meals and with that I could have one soft drink or an alcoholic one. This meant that whilst my colleagues were having a nice meal with starters, dessert and a bottle of wine, I could only afford a main course and paid for my own drinks. I also enquired about what happens when I am booked into a hotel without breakfast as I am about to, the reply was it doesn't matter the £21 is there to cover all three meals in the day!! Now I admit £21 might sound enough to cope, but when you are placed in the hotel by CHBS, it is normally one of the chain type hotels which are normally out in the middle of nowhere or just off a motorway and you try and get food for less than £21.

    It is quite embarrasing when you are dealing with civilian industry arranging contracts etc and you are sat at a table not eating because you can't afford it. I know I could afford it if I paid for it myself, but why should I pay a fortune eating out all the time doing something that the services want me to do for no recompense.

    In the old days you could also claim you incidental expenses just by adding it to your claim, now I have been told I have to provide receipts to prove I have brought my newspaper, made a call etc, so I have to have a big bundle of receipts for everything that costs 50p or above. Absoloutely ridiculous.

    I wasn't aware that we could post our concerns on the Army Net, I will look into that later.

    Rant over.
  13. Forever, in fact you do not have to supply receipts for expenditure under £5 (except for MOA claims). You do however need to detail your IE expenditure by writing on your 1771 "Newspaper=40p, 3 min telephone call=£1. Laundry costs xxp.

    You will then be paid actuals, it is difficult to imagine however how one could justify the full £5 IE expenditure. I do agree though that the different treatment of military and CS is hard to justify but I suppose you just have to remember who writes the rules. (here's a hint she aint wearing CS95!)
  14. My company (the world's largest accountancy company) requires I fill in an excel worksheet and email it to my finance department. I then print off a copy of the relevant sheets (i.e. I do not have to print off the 'flights' sheet if I have not paid for flights myself). I sign each sheet and give them, along with all the receipts to the lass in the next office.

    My boss has a look at the stuff I email him, and he sends an "approved/rejected/ammended" mail to pay. Within 5 days I am paid.

    With my corporate Amex card, I can buy what I want, when I want (there is no limit on the card). When the bill comes in I identify what was business use and private use. The private stuff is then deducted from my next pay check. No problems.

    Takes less than 30 minutes of my life a month.

    Now, if that keeps some of the most agressively nasty supervisory and audit bodies in the world happy, then why isn't it good enough for the Army? If I do get caught cheating, then I would be sacked. Simple.

    Edited to add: I give my people that I deploy 50 quid a day when deployed on top of their salary. They do not have to provide any receipts etc, as we worked out long ago that my time, and that of other Directors and Partners was wasted (I get 'rented out at 2,000 quid a day, my boss at 4,000). Why should I waste a couple of hours a day approving small claims that cost several thousand quid a month for me to administrate?
  15. To add to Quilldrivers comments. Try and get hold of a Government Procurement Card (GPC). I'm getting one issued shortly as I travel away a lot, just whack all your exes on it and when the statement comes in you ID what's official, whats personal and stick a cheque on for what you've spunked and can't come up with a decent explanation for! If you're blatting back and forth so much your RAO should be able to assist-might make his life easier too...........