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Neue Arbeit introduces bill to screw over law-abiding again

#1
Posted on Cybershooters, but important so copied here:

Neue Arbeit is introducing a bill to crack down on non-guns and law-abiding shooters.
You can read the Bill at:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/010/2006010.pdf

The "Violent Crime Reduction" Bill contains the following provisions:

- Introduces an offence of "minding" a firearm;
- Increases the age limit for possession, acquisition, etc. of an
airgun to
18;
- Introduces an offence of firing an air weapon beyond premises;
- Restricts the sale and purchase of primers and anything containing a
primer which is not ammunition (which sounds as though it includes
blanks)
to certificate holders, RFDs, etc.;
- Restricts the sale and purchase of reloading presses to people who
hold a
certificate, RFDs, etc.;
- Prohibits the sale, import, manufacture of "realistic imitation
firearms";
- Gives the Secretary of State the power to regulate the design of
imitation
firearms;
- Introduces an age limit of 18 on the sale or acquisition of an
imitation
firearm;
- Increases a wide range of penalties in relation to firearm offences.

By far the worst bit (of many bad bits) of this legislation is the
prohibition on "realistic imitation firearms".

Realistic is defined as:

"In this section "realistic imitation firearm" means an imitation
firearm
whose appearance is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for
all
practical purposes, from-
(a) a firearm of an existing make or model; or
(b) a firearm falling within a description that applies to an existing
category of firearms which, even though they include firearms of
different
makes or models or both, all have the same or a similar appearance."

"Imitation firearm" is defined in the Firearms Act 1968 (and this Bill
uses
this definition) as:

"any thing which has the appearance of being a firearm... whether or
not it
is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile"

In other words, this prohibition would catch a wide variety of stuff,
airsoft guns, blank-firers, probably deacs, model guns, etc.

It will be possible (subject to whatever the Secretary of State
specifies as
an acceptable design) to still make airsofts, e.g. by making them out
of
brightly coloured plastic or uprating the power level so they become
air
weapons, but I can't see realistically how blank-firers can survive if
you
do need a certificate to acquire blanks and deacs would have to be
heavily
modified to not look "realistic". Ditto for model guns and other
imitations.

So many people own guns in these categories that it must be well into
the
hundreds of thousands of people if not millions.

Don't hang about - write a letter to your MP as soon as you can and
make an
appointment to see them.

Points to make are the unenforceability of the legislation (how can you
stop
people selling imitations they already own?); the scale of the impact
on the
population (huge numbers of people will be affected, probably with
little
warning and without compensation); the absurdity of increasing the age
limit
on air guns when it was only increased two years ago; the fact that an
endless series of gun laws have been followed by higher levels of armed
crime; and the scale of the impact on the economy (a LOT of gun dealers
will
be forced out of business).

DO IT NOW!!!

Steve.
I couldn't paraphrase it better, so Steve's post is reproduced in full.

I'd like to know how this is going to make anything more difficult to criminals who seem to have no problem acquiring real guns. It seems like a govt that has lost the plot and "must be seen to do something", and will screw over the law-abiding again. If this bill has any impact on criminals at all, it will be to encourage them to acquire real guns. I, for one, would personally prefer the crims to be scaring people with plastic toys rather than shooting people with real guns.
 
#3
For sale:

Retail Fishing Tackle Business.
Average growth over last 4 years: 30% PA

Reason for sale:
I wake up every morning wondering what the fcuk else can be done to ruin this once great Country.

Me

Time to leave :(
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#4
Oddbod said:
For sale:

Retail Fishing Tackle Business.
Average growth over last 4 years: 30% PA

Reason for sale:
I wake up every morning wondering what the fcuk else can be done to ruin this once great Country.

Me

Time to leave :(
Well spotted Oddbod, but what happens when all 'normal' people leave ?

Does Bliar become the British Mugabe by default ?


Or perhaps that's the plan...
 
#5
It's actually a world wide effort. There are similar issues being brought up, and in some cases similar bills attempting to be introduced, with varying degrees of the content, being introduced in many countries. Canada, US, etc.

People do not like to believe it, but the rabid anti-gun crowd is very organised.
 
#6
RCSignals said:
People do not like to believe it, but the rabid anti-gun crowd is very organised.
Dont we know it. On a govenment studdy one of the Anti-shooting groups had a seat (So did a couple of the shooting organisations). This Anti-shooting groups membership was rated as somewhere between 1 and 7 people. Yet they where alowed a place.

Seriously, the more I see of this goenment, the more I begin to feel it's time I ran for PM, and did some axe weilding
 
#7
Listy said:
Seriously, the more I see of this goenment, the more I begin to feel it's time I ran for PM, and did some axe weilding
Axe-weilding was banned under the "Don't rock the Boat" Act of 1997 - can't you read? :(
 
#8
Two problems I see.

Problem 1. "modified to not look "realistic"".

Problem 2. "by making them out of brightly coloured plastic".

I was sure I was briefed once that criminals were spray painting live weapons with flourescent coloured paints specifically to slow down the shoot/don't shoot reaction. Only a matter of time then, before bright paints and all things resembling weapons (like table legs for example!!!) are also banned.

Criminals seem to have no problem what so ever in obtaining weapons. What is needed is stricter punishment not more meaningless drivvel. If you're caught with a weapon, that has been used for an offence, you get a fixed jail sentence.
 
#9
who are the pro gun MPs and what is their names so everybody can write to them as well as the name of the ANTI-gun MPs so i can point out the absurdity of the gun laws in reducing crimes as the criminal fraternity has no problems obtaining live weapons and no need of a gun licence.

a fact which MUST be pointed out to them before its too late.
i most especially would like the address's of the ANTI shooting organisation so i can write to them pointing the same fallacies in their argument in banning guns = reduced gun crimes(NOT)
 
#10
Banning Airsoft pistols and non-firing replica weapons might seem at first glance like a pointless humbug but I don't think it is.

Ayn Rand put a wise thought into the mouth of one of her villains, Ellsworth Toohey, in her novel The Fountainhead:

"There's always a purpose in nonsense. Ask yourself what it accomplishes."

What the Blair government hopes to accomplish is to magnify existing revulsion toward civilian firearms. The idea is that weapons possession is something so odious that even a simulation is intolerable.

Speaking of novels, one of my boyhood favorites depicted with great foresight the kind of civilian population the UK political mandarins hope to create.

That novel was "The Time Machine" by H.G. Wells.

In Wells' world of the future, human evolution diverged to create two distinct species.

There were the predatory, brutal Morlocks, and the childlike, beautiful, helpless Eloi.

The Eloi served as food for the Morlocks. The Eloi had neither the means nor even the concept of defending themselves.

The Eloi represent the Big Shots' vision for the bulk of humanity.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#11
PM Lord Salisbury, where are you now we need you ?




(Yes I know he's dead, but that's not the point !)
 
#12
chocolate_frog said:
Criminals seem to have no problem what so ever in obtaining weapons.
Then why do thousands of them bother with replicas?

Wiltshire is officially the safest county in the country, yet in the first three months of this year there were 90 incidents involving replica firearms. That suggests to me there is a problem.

What is needed is stricter punishment not more meaningless drivvel..
No, what is needed is more coppers on the beat.
 
#13
Several reasons why crims choose replicas:

Easier & cheaper to obtain
Lower penalty for misuse (but this of course relies on enforcement)
Removes the risk of actually harming someone

If this bill goes through, the distinction between a real gun & a replica, both financially and legally, will be reduced to the point where criminals WILL go and acquire a real gun. If you were a crim and the costs were the same, what would you do?

Which is worse - 90 incidents involving replicas, or 45 incidents involving real guns?
 
#14
Oh, and another point - you can guarantee that during the current govt propaganda campaign that every incident involving an unidentified wpn will be touted as having involved a "replica", just like after Dunblane every incident involving an unidentified wpn was touted as having involved a "handgun".
 
#15
Stoatie, I'm sure serious crims can get real guns, but I doubt very much if it's that easy for Wayne the Chav who's just trying to impress the other kids on the estate. Wiltshire didn't have 90 armed robbers, it was just dozens of kids dicking around.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#16
Awol said:
Stoatie, I'm sure serious crims can get real guns, but I doubt very much if it's that easy for Wayne the Chav who's just trying to impress the other kids on the estate. Wiltshire didn't have 90 armed robbers, it was just dozens of kids dicking around.
But the point is that you can't actually hurt someone with a replica - unless you thump them with it. Take away the replicas and Wayne the chav will get a baseball or cricket bat, or a knife (and for all the guff in this bill about knives, you can't ban them), in order to further his criminal career - and those are thing which can do people real harm. The problem is not with the replicas per se, it's with the criminals, and they will be only be defeated by comprehensive social change, effective policing, improvements in education and a whole range of other measures.
 
#17
chickenpunk said:
Awol said:
Stoatie, I'm sure serious crims can get real guns, but I doubt very much if it's that easy for Wayne the Chav who's just trying to impress the other kids on the estate. Wiltshire didn't have 90 armed robbers, it was just dozens of kids dicking around.
But the point is that you can't actually hurt someone with a replica - unless you thump them with it. Take away the replicas and Wayne the chav will get a baseball or cricket bat, or a knife (and for all the guff in this bill about knives, you can't ban them), in order to further his criminal career - and those are thing which can do people real harm. The problem is not with the replicas per se, it's with the criminals, and they will be only be defeated by comprehensive social change, effective policing, improvements in education and a whole range of other measures.
Agreed, and I think a lot of the thinking behind the proposed legislation is not only to prevent the police having to pull out the stops with the armed response boys every time Wayne wants to wave his toy around, it's also to protect Wayne from himself.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#18
Awol said:
I think a lot of the thinking behind the proposed legislation is not only to prevent the police having to pull out the stops with the armed response boys every time Wayne wants to wave his toy around, it's also to protect Wayne from himself.
I disagree with you. The purpose of this legislation is to act as a fig-leaf to cover the reality that there is no will in the Labour Party to do anything to address the root social problems which lead to violent crime. Largely because many of the underlying causes stem from decades of Labour 'welfarism', trendy educational 'reforms' and barely suppressed encouragement of class-war attitudes.

A good deal of the schtick surrounding the bill has been misleading at best: it's true that some replicas can be made to fire one or two rounds of live ammunition before they blow apart, but so can various items of plumbing supplies, to much the same effect; and I suspect that the great majority of replicas are bought by Walter Mitties simply so they can have the occasional Andy McNab moment in the privacy of their own home, and not for any criminal purpose. At the of the day, why shouldn't they?

I wonder if it will be the case that - with a ban on replica firearms in place - the Police will be able to presume that any gun-alike being waved around by Wayne Chav is actually a real firearm and open fire accordingly? Maybe this is what lies behind the Police's enthusiasm for the law.

It would be instructive to know just how many things Labour have banned since they took power: it must be quite a list by now. I suppose that these knee jerk bans must eventually have some effect in the areas that they are meant to, simply by weight of numbers, but it is moulding a society of timid creatures, unable to take responsibility for their own and their families' behaviour and actions.
 
#19
Less gun shaped things being waved around means less false call-outs by the armed response team. As the vast majority of these call-outs (and plod have no alternative but to assume every incident is a real one) are a waste of everyone's time, the savings on police time and taxpayer's money is going to be enormous.

The sticking plaster legislation being chucked at us is not only the downside of 40 years of trendy liberalism, it's also seen by the powers that be as a lot easier than training the new army of coppers that is actually needed. What use are laws when the bobbies aren't there to enforce them? Makes sexy headlines though.
 

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