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Nelson finally gets called out by BLM/Woke NMM

Worth pointing out that Nelson's Pillar in Dublin was built a full 30 years before London got around to erecting its one.

Irish builders not so slow after all.
Barbados also beat London to it, by 27 years. Though they have dropped the name Trafalgar Square:


The local statue of Lord Nelson in Bridgetown was erected approximately 27 years before the more famous Nelson's Column in London, which serves as the centrepiece of Trafalgar Square.
 

Sorry still not buying it, if the UK really was a multicultural society in the 1800s then minorities would be in loads of pics and paintings from the time, clearly that is not the case because people have to actively search them out. I'm not saying that there were no minorities, but the UK certainly wasn't a multicultural society and most people would never have laid eyes on a black person unless they were in the army/navy.

I don't feel particularly comfortable about my reply to LVH, especially the part about visiting London, but if LVH can say that he doesn't feel comfortable about visiting places outside of the city cos there's too many white people then why can't I make the same claim about too many minorities for when I lived in Harlesden?

Equality won't work unless all races and countries accept and believe in it, clearly that is not happening.
 
London in the 1930s was something like 98% Anglo Saxon (whatever that is) so I don't buy the idea that the UK was a perennial multicultural society. Most British people at the time had never seen a person from a different race.

The same unease you feel at visiting somewhere like Devon is likely a familiar feeling for white British people when they visit their nation's capital city - they suddenly become the minorities.

It's a difficult subject to beach because it offends just about everyone, but imho it is worth pondering whether a country's capital city should reflect the rest of the populace, or should we live in a world where race is not an issue?

Presumably your family have roots to a non-white country, would it be peculiar for their capital city to become a different majority race?

It seems that it is only Western countries who think this way. There's no way in hell that India, Africa, Russia, the Middle East or China would accept a different ethnic majority in their countries.

It's a bit of a kicker when Jews and Palestinians are always at each others throats whilst still coming from the same area, yet Europeans are expected to happily get along with the rest of the entire world and immediately accept everyone from anywhere as their closest kin.

I understand where you coming from, and I know that growing up in London had given me a very different views to people who have grown up in different parts of the UK. London is not the centre of the universe and being London centric is not good.

As for me, I am white but my family roots are spread and each generation likes moving country like a ping pong ball. My family is very Heinz 57, with members from the UK, Hong Kong, Zimbabwe, Cuba, India, Burma, America, and a hand full of European countries. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hippies are all represented too, we even have a few Communists.

While the stats for London being 44% white can be shocking to some, you need to put it into context. 63.3% of Londoners are UK born, they are British (English, Scots, Welsh, NI). London is still very much a British city.

Of the 36.7% of Londoners born out side of the UK a percentage of those will be from the EU.

London is/was port city and has always had people from around the world visiting through work (sailors, merchants, etc) so while they might not appear on the census, it does not mean they where not part of London life. If you look at the cartoons of the 18th century of London life, there are many non white faces.
Was London a historic super woke city? No, it was just as racist as the rest of the world at the time, but global trade exposed London to different cultures.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
London is/was port city and has always had people from around the world visiting through work (sailors, merchants, etc) so while they might not appear on the census, it does not mean they where not part of London life. If you look at the cartoons of the 18th century of London life, there are many non white faces.
Was London a historic super woke city? No, it was just as racist as the rest of the world at the time, but global trade exposed London to different cultures.
I know, I’ve watched Doctor Who. Absolutely every guest house, every single one, had a sign in the window that said ‘No dogs, No Irish, No blacks’. In that order.

*Rolls eyes

...London. The capital of the same country whose citizens protested during WW2 when they saw how black American soldiers were treated.

I’m not saying for a moment that racism hasn’t or doesn’t exist here. But the modern ‘interpretations’ are ridiculous.

(Yours is a good post, btw.)
 
Sorry still not buying it, if the UK really was a multicultural society in the 1800s then minorities would be in loads of pics and paintings from the time, clearly that is not the case because people have to actively search them out. I'm not saying that there were no minorities, but the UK certainly wasn't a multicultural society and most people would never have laid eyes on a black person unless they were in the army/navy.

I don't feel particularly comfortable about my reply to LVH, especially the part about visiting London, but if LVH can say that he doesn't feel comfortable about visiting places outside of the city cos there's too many white people then why can't I make the same claim about too many minorities for when I lived in Harlesden?

Equality won't work unless all races and countries accept and believe in it, clearly that is not happening.

You a free to say you feel uncomfortable if you want. There are parts of London I feel uncomfortable visiting too.
Your views are just as valid as mine and I fully support you right to have them.
 
I know, I’ve watched Doctor Who. Absolutely every guest house, every single one, had a sign in the window that said ‘No dogs, No Irish, No blacks’. In that order.

*Rolls eyes

...London. The capital of the same country whose citizens protested during WW2 when they saw how black American soldiers were treated.

I’m not saying for a moment that racism hasn’t or doesn’t exist here. But the modern ‘interpretations’ are ridiculous.

(Yours is a good post, btw.)

I have always found the woke over egging the pudding in programs a turn off and counter productive.

Why can't they just be historically accurate? Black/mixed heritage Londoners made up about 20,000 to 40,000 in the early 1800's (approx. 2-3% of the London population), mostly working class, predominantly living by the docks. Very few made it to the upper class.
Out side of London or cities and towns with docks the chances of encountering a none white person, or even a non Brit, dropped drastically. It's just how society was back then.
 
I know, I’ve watched Doctor Who. Absolutely every guest house, every single one, had a sign in the window that said ‘No dogs, No Irish, No blacks’. In that order.

*Rolls eyes

...London. The capital of the same country whose citizens protested during WW2 when they saw how black American soldiers were treated.

I’m not saying for a moment that racism hasn’t or doesn’t exist here. But the modern ‘interpretations’ are ridiculous.

(Yours is a good post, btw.)

The protests were fairly minimal, and mainly vocal from those profiting from extra customers such as pubs.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I have always found the woke over egging the pudding in programs a turn off and counter productive.

Why can't they just be historically accurate? Black/mixed heritage Londoners made up about 20,000 to 40,000 in the early 1800's (approx. 2-3% of the London population), mostly working class, predominantly living by the docks. Very few made it to the upper class.
Out side of London or cities and towns with docks the chances of encountering a none white person, or even a non Brit, dropped drastically. It's just how society was back then.
Exactly. And it’s perfectly valid for this country’s history to reflect that.
 

Admiral Fraser wrote fondly of an instance which would set the scene for the relationship of mutual respect and support that would feature in operations between Task Force 57 and 58:

“I remember very well when I first went over to see Admiral Nimitz in Honolulu. At the end of our talks I was congratulating him on what the American fleet had done. He said, “Yes, I think we have done very well. There’s only one thing we envy you, and that is your British traditions.” I was very surprised and said, “Do you really think so, Admiral?” “Yes,”, he said, “it’s the thing you've got which can neither be bought nor sold. Guard it with your lives.” I always remember that. Wonderful thing for an American admiral to say.”
 
Worth pointing out that Nelson's Pillar in Dublin was built a full 30 years before London got around to erecting its one.

Irish builders not so slow after all.
Aye, in common with a significant no. (circa 30%) of HMS VICTORY's ship's company Lord Nelson was himself an Irishman.

His name offers the best clue - Horati O'Nelson.
 

Awol

LE
London in the 1930s was something like 98% Anglo Saxon (whatever that is) so I don't buy the idea that the UK was a perennial multicultural society. Most British people at the time had never seen a person from a different race.

The same unease you feel at visiting somewhere like Devon is likely a familiar feeling for white British people when they visit their nation's capital city - they suddenly become the minorities.

It's a difficult subject to beach because it offends just about everyone, but imho it is worth pondering whether a country's capital city should reflect the rest of the populace, or should we live in a world where race is not an issue?

Presumably your family have roots to a non-white country, would it be peculiar for their capital city to become a different majority race?

It seems that it is only Western countries who think this way. There's no way in hell that India, Africa, Russia, the Middle East or China would accept a different ethnic majority in their countries.

It's a bit of a kicker when Jews and Palestinians are always at each others throats whilst still coming from the same area, yet Europeans are expected to happily get along with the rest of the entire world and immediately accept everyone from anywhere as their closest kin.
More to the point, why are white Englishmen/women the only people on earth who are to be vilified for being proud of their heritage?
 
More to the point, why are white Englishmen/women the only people on earth who are to be vilified for being proud of their heritage?
Envy, nothing but envy as we know we’ve won the lottery ticket of life.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Nelson, as far as I am aware, was not racist and he wasn't involved in the slave trade. However his father was, that's not Nelsons fault, so how many generations are these people going to go back?

The National Maritime Museum should get a grip and stop kow-towing to a minority of trouble makers.

When is somebody in charge going to put a stop to this utter nonsense?
 
Nelson, as far as I am aware, was not racist and he wasn't involved in the slave trade. However his father was, that's not Nelsons fault, so how many generations are these people going to go back?

The National Maritime Museum should get a grip and stop kow-towing to a minority of trouble makers.

When is somebody in charge going to put a stop to this utter nonsense?
It seems that their ultimate goal is to replace the UK with a "democratic" one party state. Like that worked elsewhere.
 

Fabius Maximus

Old-Salt
I don't get the veneration of Nelson frankly.

If I behaved as he did, I'd be fired in half a heartbeat. Yes, he won against the French (huzzah!), but there are plenty of RN Officers who did.

Perhaps we should widen the aperture to people like Collingwood, Franklin, Ross (either), ABC, Bruce Fraser et al, rather than just concentrating on one individual?

Or is this more about getting the outrage bus first paraded, POL'd and squeezing your gut behind the wheel whilst wheezing and sweating more than a man of your age should?
They daren’t widen the aperture now... some of those Admirals might be guilty of 21st century crimes...
 

syrup

LE
Nelson, as far as I am aware, was not racist and he wasn't involved in the slave trade. However his father was, that's not Nelsons fault, so how many generations are these people going to go back?

The National Maritime Museum should get a grip and stop kow-towing to a minority of trouble makers.

When is somebody in charge going to put a stop to this utter nonsense?

Perhaps when these academics and other complain we should do a quick "who do you think they are" back ground check on them.
I'm thinking along the lines of Ainsley Harriot who went back to his family's island with knowledge they'd been slaves.
Ainsley was expecting the clanking of ghostly chains, the crack of a forgotten whip and three choruses of De Camptown ladies.
Poor Ainsley was devastated to learn it was his family cracking the whip and conducting the band.

Maybe we could point out that their tribe wasn't that nice or that when their grandparents arrived they had no dramas over a statue of Nelson

It might be worth also pointing out probably 99% of people who came to this country did so as it was regarding as a fair place of safety or for economic reasons again because it was considered fair and they could have a chance to get on.

I would also argue against the white privilege bollocks
Very few people in the UK saw any of the "slave money"

My family living in the slums of Glasgow 100 years ago never benefited from the slave trade.
My grandfather would have been considered well travelled but that took a World War to do that.
I've been to places many black people wouldn't have but hat's not because I'm privileged
I opened the careers office door and walked in at 17 there was no whites only sign on the door it was open to all
 

Awol

LE
Nelson, as far as I am aware, was not racist and he wasn't involved in the slave trade. However his father was, that's not Nelsons fault, so how many generations are these people going to go back?

The National Maritime Museum should get a grip and stop kow-towing to a minority of trouble makers.

When is somebody in charge going to put a stop to this utter nonsense?
The biggest problem is that those trouble makers are pushing at an open door.

History shows that it is all utter nonsense, but it’s going to take someone very high up with the balls to throw the actual facts at these bullies before things get any better.
 

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