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neighbourhood deathwatch

should vigilante groups be formed and given powers

  • No how will I rob the granny across the street with them buggers running around

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • yes though we must be careful

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
We , as a nation , are becoming more frightened of the teenage thuggery and general malevolence that is happening on our street.So the question is how can we tart up the old neighbourhood watch to appeal to the younger, and lets face it more likely to protect us , persons . Should we change the name? uniforms ? weaponary? anything that we can do to take to the streets once and for all and leather the little chav ba stards back into law abiding citizens. It's time we took the "Watch" into the twenty first century and lay to rest the coffin dodging, pee smelling , lavender rose water spraying shibboleth and move on.The Guardian Angels tried and fell by the wayside now its our turn! :x
 
#2
I have to say no because you limited the options too much.
Sorry ... you cannot exchange the rule of one mob with another and then call it progress.
The Nation has Laws, and those Laws should be enforced by properly constituted authorities.
FFS, you'll be burning harmless witches next.
 
#5
blue_sophist said:
I have to say no because you limited the options too much.
Sorry ... you cannot exchange the rule of one mob with another and then call it progress.
The Nation has Laws, and those Laws should be enforced by properly constituted authorities.
FFS, you'll be burning harmless witches next.
Is that no to update the neighbourhood watch or no to giving them powers? As you well know I hold your opinions int he highest of esteem blue but surely updating the watch would be better for all making for a return to the "sense of community"
 
#8
burnleybootboy said:
blue_sophist said:
I have to say no because you limited the options too much.
Sorry ... you cannot exchange the rule of one mob with another and then call it progress.
The Nation has Laws, and those Laws should be enforced by properly constituted authorities.
FFS, you'll be burning harmless witches next.
Is that no to update the neighbourhood watch or no to giving them powers? As you well know I hold your opinions int he highest of esteem blue but surely updating the watch would be better for all making for a return to the "sense of community"
Flattery will get you some places, but not here! :wink:
Advocating civilians inflicting violence on other civilians is, IIRC, actually illegal.
Neighbourhod Watch should report the car-trashing, graffito-scrawling scum to the Police, then settle down for a 4-course meal followed by a decent film on TV while waiting for the only copper on duty to finish the paperwork on a speeding ticket and come round to say "Allo, what's going on here then? Do you have a licence for that TV, Sir?"
If you ever watch "Cops" on Sky, you usually see 6 police cars turn up at virtually every incident within a couple of minutes. If you are prepared to pay, through your council tax of course, you can actually have enough Police out there to do the job.
 
#9
What we need are ID cards.
Carried by armed soldiers who will gun down chav scum on sight for being 'in possesion of an annoying vocabulary' or 'going prepared to breathe'.
 
#10
still21inmymind said:
What we need are ID cards.
Carried by armed soldiers who will gun down chav scum on sight for being 'in possesion of an annoying vocabulary' or 'going prepared to breathe'.
The voice of moderation at last ...

Your concession to human rights, by allowing them to continue wearing their baseball caps whilst ingesting 5.56 ball, shows an enlightened attitude to this distressing problem. :wink:
And you may also be helping address global warming, by eliminating the chav-scum-trash-moron emissions of CO2.

I doubt the scheme will get approval from Bruxelles, though.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#11
Although this is a topic that has been covered several times, it is one that I hold dear to my heart, and one that is worth pursuing.
Neighbourhood watch is a good idea, in principle, but in operation it is quirky, to say the least.
The basic problem with this sort of organisation is that it can attract people who use it for their own purpose, or for an entirely selfish agenda. Not to say that their beliefs are wrong, but may be slightly skewed.
The 'Special Constable' of 10 or more years ago used to perform a valuable service, especially in rural areas. In the village of which I was 'sherriff' I had 4 that would patrol just about every night, and since one was daughter of local magistrate, councillor, and major farmer,l and another was a teacher at local secondary school, they were incredibly good.

To return to 'vigilantes'; we are constantly being told by police and other authorities NOT to 'take the law into our own hands'. I remind you, it is OUR law. Most criminal law stautes carry the codicil that 'anyone may arrest, without warrant, any person found committing this offence'. And why that has not been quoted when plod nick a citizen who detains a villain, then finds themselves collar-felt.
The police "services" have surrendered the streets, they have abdicated their responsibility, and instead become social workers. This is not a criticism of footsoldiers, but of the middle and senior ranks who have their own socialist agenda, which they pursue to the detriment of the public, to whom they owe their service.

Soap box now taken away.
 
#12
old_fat_and_hairy said:
The police "services" have surrendered the streets, they have abdicated their responsibility, and instead become social workers. This is not a criticism of footsoldiers, but of the middle and senior ranks who have their own socialist agenda, which they pursue to the detriment of the public, to whom they owe their service.

Soap box now taken away.
Indeed and as you have said it is our law, we have also abdicate some responsibilties when we allowed neighbourhood watch and PCSO and other assorted plactic polieing to be foisted on us we shrugged our shoulders and said well what can we do, they wont listen too us so DID we go and make our voices heard?

Vilgilantes are just that nearly all of us here rant rightly so that the vigilanties 'won' in NI so before you start gobbing off about this and that just take a moment to reflect on the street patrols that many of us did to stop vigilanties imposing there order.

Its a fine line between the curtain twitching informer of the stasi years and proper neighbourhood communities ensuring that there streets are safe. but that has been mentioned already by OFH .... and knowing this and that some people will without the rule of law will bring an agenda too being vigilantes.
 
#13
We had vigilantes back in the seventies. Friends, neighbours, anyone with a spare ear. Saw horses, road blocks. One mass meeting, ex regs left and went for a pint. Those that stayed formed the UDA.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#14
There is a great misconception of vigilantism. The word is derived from Spanish, meaning 'watchman'.
It was first used colloquially in the 1870's in the south-western parts of USA. but there are many early examples. Robin Hood was essentially a vigilante, as were a number of other heroes of folklore.
Remeber, essentially, George Washington was of this ilk, as were others who 'took the law into their own hands' and opposed a government or system that was thought to be cruel or corrupt.
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
 
#15
old_fat_and_hairy said:
There is a great misconception of vigilantism. The word is derived from Spanish, meaning 'watchman'.
It was first used colloquially in the 1870's in the south-western parts of USA. but there are many early examples. Robin Hood was essentially a vigilante, as were a number of other heroes of folklore.
Remeber, essentially, George Washington was of this ilk, as were others who 'took the law into their own hands' and opposed a government or system that was thought to be cruel or corrupt.
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
Quite right OFaH. Surely to be vigilant is everybodies responsibility.I, some may say different, was trying in a way to establish almost, if you like , a super neighbourhood watch. I think , as has been stated , it has been a cohesion of people in the past wanting to use it to their own advantage. If we reformed the whole system , putting the onus back onto the common man and by getting rid of the laws that protect the crimminal we can then create an almost civilian styled police force.I f communities were run by leaders , as there eem to be a lot of asian/muslim leaders but no others then trouble spots/makers become known . Take away the right of the crimminals and let law abiding citizens live in peace.

Or fight fire with fire and fck em Lets have a Tw@t a chav day

:D
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#16
burnleybootboy said:
old_fat_and_hairy said:
There is a great misconception of vigilantism. The word is derived from Spanish, meaning 'watchman'.
It was first used colloquially in the 1870's in the south-western parts of USA. but there are many early examples. Robin Hood was essentially a vigilante, as were a number of other heroes of folklore.
Remeber, essentially, George Washington was of this ilk, as were others who 'took the law into their own hands' and opposed a government or system that was thought to be cruel or corrupt.
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
Quite right OFaH. Surely to be vigilant is everybodies responsibility.I, some may say different, was trying in a way to establish almost, if you like , a super neighbourhood watch. I think , as has been stated , it has been a cohesion of people in the past wanting to use it to their own advantage. If we reformed the whole system , putting the onus back onto the common man and by getting rid of the laws that protect the crimminal we can then create an almost civilian styled police force.I f communities were run by leaders , as there eem to be a lot of asian/muslim leaders but no others then trouble spots/makers become known . Take away the right of the crimminals and let law abiding citizens live in peace.

Or fight fire with fire and fck em Lets have a Tw@t a chav day

:D
Bring back - as was proposed in another forum - the old concept of 'outlaw'. Once declared as such, then law offers no protection to criminals.
Reform sentencing so that it actually punishes and dters offenders. Rehabilitation should not be for prison service, rather for probation service or social services. Police to enforce the difficult laws, as opposed to the easy targets. A zero tolerance policy toward crime does work. It worked extremely well in New York City,Los Angeles, Phoenix and Dallas. Even in Middlesborough, until the political influence was brought to bear on the Copper leading the initiative.
 
#17
old_fat_and_hairy said:
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
My bold

Do the words "Lynch Mob" mean anything to you?
 
#18
old_fat_and_hairy said:
There is a great misconception of vigilantism. The word is derived from Spanish, meaning 'watchman'.
It was first used colloquially in the 1870's in the south-western parts of USA. but there are many early examples. Robin Hood was essentially a vigilante, as were a number of other heroes of folklore.
Remeber, essentially, George Washington was of this ilk, as were others who 'took the law into their own hands' and opposed a government or system that was thought to be cruel or corrupt.
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
By that notion Gerry Adams and his ilk are vigilaties as well, and therefore their struggle was/is justified.

Vigelanty, terrorist, freedom fighter, defender of faith. It all depends on the angle yu look at it.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#19
tothepubandbeyond said:
old_fat_and_hairy said:
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
My bold

Do the words "Lynch Mob" mean anything to you?
Yes, a term I am familiar with, but oft misused and certainly not quoted, recommended or supported in anything I have said. Unless you are referring to the party that followeds the Taiosech of Ireland.
And, in reference to early law enforcement in USA, was it not mostly 'lynch mob?' Were not judges and marshals appointed by the local council, with no formal training or legal standing? As were, inmdeed, Parish Constables in England and Wales. So, please define 'lynch mob' within the context of my particular post.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#20
bobath said:
old_fat_and_hairy said:
There is a great misconception of vigilantism. The word is derived from Spanish, meaning 'watchman'.
It was first used colloquially in the 1870's in the south-western parts of USA. but there are many early examples. Robin Hood was essentially a vigilante, as were a number of other heroes of folklore.
Remeber, essentially, George Washington was of this ilk, as were others who 'took the law into their own hands' and opposed a government or system that was thought to be cruel or corrupt.
Early law enforcement in America was in the hands of 'vigilantes', as indeed it was in this country, prior to establishment of first police force. Therefore, not always a bad thing to be a vigilante.
By that notion Gerry Adams and his ilk are vigilaties as well, and therefore their struggle was/is justified.

Vigelanty, terrorist, freedom fighter, defender of faith. It all depends on the angle yu look at it.
Would that be the same Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness that are now Members of Parliament and Ministers in Ulster Assembly?


Whether you like them, agree with them, or not. They, along with Robert Mugabe, Mahatma Ghandi, Jomo Kenyatta and dozens of others used the same methods to achieve a legal standing and changed the system.I don't support or endorse any of them, but can't fault their achievements.
And this is getting a million miles away from the original thread, and back toward the one about insurrection.
 

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