Need some advice

#1
The Chief Clerk at my unit is displaying a current tax disc on his car that obviously belongs to a different vehicle as the registration number and make of car on the disc to not correspond to the car he is driving. DVLA have today confirmed that his car is untaxed and therefore it is a CivPol matter as he is driving the car to and from work on a public highway. Problem is that it is parked daily at a TA unit which is MOD property and therefore private. Would appreciate some advice from our law enforcers on how to pursue this matter .


T
 
#2
MR_T said:
The Chief Clerk at my unit is displaying a current tax disc on his car that obviously belongs to a different vehicle as the registration number and make of car on the disc to not correspond to the car he is driving. DVLA have today confirmed that his car is untaxed and therefore it is a CivPol matter as he is driving the car to and from work on a public highway. Problem is that it is parked daily at a TA unit which is MOD property and therefore private. Would appreciate some advice from our law enforcers on how to pursue this matter .


T
Just a question but how did you get the DVLA to tell you the car is not taxed? A quick word in his ear, to say that a few people have noticed the tax disc, may prompt him to get it changed and will not require the civpol to be involved or do you want to see him in the shit?
 
#3
There is a page on DVLA's website on which you can enter an index number and return details of the vehicle including whether it's taxed. Go here and click on 'Vehicle Enquiry'

To drop offenders in it, click here: DVLA

MoD property is considered to be the same as a public road for the purposes of traffic law.
 
#4
Depending on where you live i would do one of the following
a) go into the internet and see if you local police force has a web site for reporting crime and you can do it that way
b) find out the non emergency reporting number for you local police force and bubble him that way

you can report an untaxed vehicle anonymously to dvla on 0800 032 5202 they will then write a polite letter advising him of the error of his ways in having an untaxed vehicle and can ask for the back tax between when it was last taxed and now or will give a straight forward fine/penalty

if he is driving around displaying a tax disc not relevant to his vehicle he is committing a number of offences so could really find himself in the sh1t

havent you got any one like rmps/mod plods who control the gate who could speak with him ????
 
#5
Do you not like this guy. You seem to be like a dog with a bone. If his car isnt taxed the authorities will catch up with him. Or are you one of these people who likes to play the Sir, Sir do u know that the Cheif hasnt got a tax disc.
He has no Tax ...............You have no life. Cnut :lol:
 
#6
Darthtater,

in reply to your post, a couple of people had a word in his ear as far back as three months ago, he insisted he had a valid tax disc but it had slipped down the front of his dashboard, hence the reason for using the tax disc from his daughters car, who happens to be banned from driving!

OSACIN,

we are a TA unit and don't have dealings with rmp/modplods, its the local police who deal with us. I reported it the DVLA yesterday, so hopefully they will write to him. My main concern is that if he has an accident his insurance would be invalid, and as some people here have pointed out he might not even have any insurance as you can't get a tax disc without it. All i can do for now is wait out and see how it goes as I am not the only person on his case.


T
 
#7
I hope the individual concerned gets his comeuppance. He is a SNCO or WO and should be setting an example. As Chf Clk he has a position of trust and responsibility; not only has he avoided paying the tax on his car, he has deliberately tried to make it look as if he has - what does this say about his integrity? If he'd lost the proper disc all he has to do is write to DVLA for a replacement. Since car insurance policies invariably require the car to be properly taxed to be valid, he is driving without insurance. Uninsured drivers put premium costs up for everyone else.

Let DVLA/the police sort it out. Of course, it could be that, for example, this man and his wife taxed their cars at the same time and put the wrong disc on the wrong cars; still an offence, but the police would probably not prosecute once the right disc was on the right car. If it's a simple mistake he has nothing to fear.
 
#8
ViroBono said:
I hope the individual concerned gets his comeuppance. He is a SNCO or WO and should be setting an example. As Chf Clk he has a position of trust and responsibility; not only has he avoided paying the tax on his car, he has deliberately tried to make it look as if he has - what does this say about his integrity? If he'd lost the proper disc all he has to do is write to DVLA for a replacement. Since car insurance policies invariably require the car to be properly taxed to be valid, he is driving without insurance. Uninsured drivers put premium costs up for everyone else.

Let DVLA/the police sort it out. Of course, it could be that, for example, this man and his wife taxed their cars at the same time and put the wrong disc on the wrong cars; still an offence, but the police would probably not prosecute once the right disc was on the right car. If it's a simple mistake he has nothing to fear.
As far as I am aware there are powers in force to crush cars not showing appropriate tax disc or not showing any at all. Also a major integrity issue going on, not only is he not taxed as VB says if his story is true he can apply for a replacement. However he is attempting to mislead byusing his daughter's tax disc and he is most likely an uninsured driver. If civpol do pursue he is leaving himself wide open for AGAI as well.
 
#9
What the funky monkey has it got to do with you.

If you are loosing sleep over it I suggest you take yourself off to a quiet corner and have a word.

You snidy little no life snot bag

perhaps you need to rebadge as rmp, or maybe become a special copper/traffic warden

Integrity smegrity you'd probably grass him up for swamping on the street on a run ashore

BOO feckin hiss

TheGimp
 
#10
thegimp said:
What the funky monkey has it got to do with you.

If you are loosing sleep over it I suggest you take yourself off to a quiet corner and have a word.

You snidy little no life snot bag

perhaps you need to rebadge as rmp, or maybe become a special copper/traffic warden

Integrity smegrity you'd probably grass him up for swamping on the street on a run ashore

BOO feckin hiss

TheGimp
Windup or are you serious?

Just on the off chance you are serious.

Tosser!

If a SNCO/WO is quite blatantly breaking the law and lieing about it to those under his command he deserves everything that can be thrown at him.

You sound just like all the other "it's nothing to do with me" w@nkers who just turn their heads and look the other way whenver anything nasty happens.

I hope this unisured car drives into yours. See how much you like being stuck with the bill for repairs because some chav tw@ can't be bothered to tax and insure his car.
 
#11
Its only a minor offence.
However, if I were his boss, I would be looking at any other 'short cuts' he might be taking in his work with the TAC. Its usally people like this that have a whole iceberg of problems sitting under this tip.
 
#12
He would not appear to be committing an offence, as the failure to display a valid excise licence must be committed on a road maintained by the local authority. MoD owned roads and land do not generally fall within this definition.

He commits an offence as soon as he drives from MoD land onto the public highway. Furthermore, a CO has the right to deny an untaxed (or any other vehicle) from entering his unit.

If you're happy subsidising car tax dodgers, do nothing. Otherwise, shop him to DVLA (I see you already have). If, as he claims, he has lost the disc, but has paid the duty, DVLA will take no action. However, if the police catch him displaying a disc that does not belong to the vehicle, he could be prosecuted for fraudulent use of a vehicle excise licence, which is a more serious offence.
 
#13
The_Next_Darjeeling said:
He would not appear to be committing an offence, as the failure to display a valid excise licence must be committed on a road maintained by the local authority. MoD owned roads and land do not generally fall within this definition.
Every unit I have served at has included the requirement for vehicles to be taxed (unless with permission, and a SORN obtained), so the chap with the wrong tax disc is committing an offence whether he's on the public road or not.

Such as (these are RAF for the benefit of the snowdrop above:

No person to whom these Orders apply is to use or keep, or permit to be used or kept any private motor vehicle on the Station unless such person registers it with Police Flt for registration of such vehicle and the vehicle is thereafter duly registered. At the time of application for registration the applicant is to certify that the vehicle is currently taxed, insured and MOT tested in accordance with the current regulations of the Road Traffic Act and that they hold a current driving licence. Documentary evidence may be requested. When a vehicle has been registered in accordance with Para 3, one of the following passes will be issued to the registered owner or user of the vehicle
and:

all personnel whether owners or drivers using or keeping a private vehicle on the Station are to be in possession of valid insurance and a valid MOT test certificate (if applicable) relating to the vehicles being so used or kept and are to produce evidence of such to the Station authorities when so requested:

A valid vehicle excise licence, which must be clearly displayed in the vehicle.
and:

Any person to whom these orders apply may park their vehicle untaxed when detached on duty for a minimum of 4 mths (eg Falkland Isles). A Statutory Off-Road Notification (SORN) is to be obtained and the MOD Police or RAF Police are to be informed well in advance with the exact dates of the detachment and the location of the vehicle. In addition, a note is to be put in the window stating that the MOD Police or the RAF Police have been informed and the Guardroom are to be informed.
Good to see the RAF Police are as well informed as ever! :roll:
 
#14
Grass him up. If his vehicle is not taxed, then his insurance is invalid and anyone involved in a RTA with him will have to whistle.
Irresponsible cu*t!
If informing on him puts you in a difficult postion, PM me with his details, and I will gladly drop him in it.
 
#15
Viro Bono

I'm not sure why you think generic RAF SSOs might apply to the TA unit mentioned in the original post.

Notwithstanding this, the extant service legal advice is that, an apparent vehicle excise license offence, 'committed' on a road that does not fall within the definition of a 'public road', under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (and MOD-maintained roads do not), would not be proven and should not be charged.

Legally, therefore, the driver of a vehicle without a valid vehicle excise licence, may be denied access to a service unit and may be required to leave one, but cannot be charged with any vehicle excise offence, alleged to have been committed off a 'public road', contrary to local orders (or any other legislation).

In practice, the Service Police would require the driver to leave the unit and the civilian police would deal with the offence, once the vehicle was on a 'public road'.
 
#16
TND

I used RAF SSOs as an example, partly because they were easy to access, but the wording is very similar to that I've also seen on Army garrisons - I saw no reason why similar orders would not apply to TACs.

What you say about not charging a civilian offence may be correct, but would not an alleged offender be liable to be charged with disobeying orders or even S69? That's a rhetorical question, because I'm aware that it has happened - to me, some years ago (I had written permission, but the young A/Cpl was not going to let that stand in his way!). Indeed, at the station I recently left, the RAFP had regular traffic crackdowns (seatbelts, speeding and so on). Those stopped were warned that they could be charged with disobeying SSOs (if military) or that their veh pass could be withdrawn (civilians).

The point I was making is that the vehicle being on MoD land is not an excuse for failing to display a valid tax disk, and service authorities can do something about it.

Out of interest, I wonder if in theory, MDP could escort a driver off MoD land onto a public road, and then stick them on?
 
#17
Viro

I'm guessing the original poster has a better knowledge of the orders pertaining to his unit than you or I, but that is really a side issue.

As I said in my previous post, the legal advice is that any charge for an offence (contrary to local orders or statute law), arising from a failure to have or display a valid vehicle licence, while not on a public road, would not succeed. The problem is peculiar to vehicle licensing offences and there is no similar difficulty with disciplinary action under the other 'standing orders' vehicle and driving offences you mention, all of which are generally enforceable on military units.

I perfectly understand your point, but the law implicitly says that being on MoD land is indeed an excuse for failing to display a valid tax disc. As I said before, the service authorities can do something about it, in that the CO has absolute discretion in deciding what vehicles may enter his unit.

In answer to your question regarding the MDP, there would be nothing to prevent the MDP following an unlicensed vehicle from MoD land, onto a public road and then dealing with the vehicle licensing offence disclosed. If by 'escorting', you mean forcibly removing a driver and vehicle from MoD land, the MDP could not do this, simply on the basis that the vehicle was unlicensed, if, in all other respects, the driver and vehicle were legally present on MoD land.

This is, however, straying from the point, which is that, on the facts presented, the driver mentioned in the original post does not commit an offence (this includes fraudulent use of a vehicle licence), until he takes his unlicensed vehicle onto a public road.

MR_T

The problem in this case appears to be a practical one, of persuading the civpol (or MDP) to hang around your TA unit, until such time as the Chief Clerk emerges onto the public road. The easier solution would be for the CO of the TA unit to tell the Chief Clerk that he will not allow the Chief Clerk to bring his car onto the unit, as the CO does not wish to be seen as condoning an offence. Presumably, the Chief Clerk will then obtain a valid vehicle licence or, failing that, will park the vehicle outside the TA unit, on a public road. The police will then be more likely to deal with the offence (especially that of fraudulently using a vehicle licence), when you report it.
 
#19
Just to muddy the water a bit more, TA Centres are not MOD Property. They belong to the TAVRA (Territorial Army and Volunteer Reserve Association) in whose area they are located. IMHO if Chiefy has not responded to the promptings he has receiced o far he is a fool and a knave (doesn't old fasioned language sum up these situations perfectly\0. For being a fool he has only himnself to blame, for being a knave he deserves what is coming to him. If the advice is coming to him from his subiordinates in the unit I feear he has lost all his credibility and should consider his position, unless the CO is considerig it for him, which he should be. TTFN.
 

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