Need help tracing someone's history please

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Afternoon , I'm after a bit of help for a mate who's just been given some family medals but wants to know a bit about the history of his Great Grandfather's and Grandfather's military service. he's sent me a couple of pics which I hope are of some help, I also have their names and in one case service number. 2nd pic is of his G/Grandfather's medals and his Grandfather's call up papers.
From the 1st pic, I've managed to grasp that his G/Grandfather served with the 2nd Bn, Lincolnshire Regt during WW1. His full name was William Jack Garner, also the name of his Grandfather who, my mate reckons, served with the "Royal Humbers" as a desert rat, but he can't find anything to back that up. He was also landed on Normandy in 44.
If any of you history buffs could help out, he'd be grateful.
WJG 2.jpg
WJG 1.jpg
 
It does look like there are a few medals missing. The WW1 ones usually came in 3's, the !914 or 14/15 Star, the War Medal in silver, and the Victory Medal (the latter of which you haven't got). The WW2 medals's weren't named, but if I read the paperwork date correctly he should have the 39/45 star (which you've got), the France and Germany Star, the Defence medal and the War medal (the latter 3 of which are missing). There wasn't a unit called the "Royal Humbers" in WW2, but there was a few "Royal Hussars" types eg 4th, 10th, 13/18, 15/19, and just to confuse the issue some armoured units did use "Humber" armoured cars. Any photos of him in uniform? Any odd badges lying about?

WC
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
It does look like there are a few medals missing. The WW1 ones usually came in 3's, the !914 or 14/15 Star, the War Medal in silver, and the Victory Medal (the latter of which you haven't got). The WW2 medals's weren't named, but if I read the paperwork date correctly he should have the 39/45 star (which you've got), the France and Germany Star, the Defence medal and the War medal (the latter 3 of which are missing). There wasn't a unit called the "Royal Humbers" in WW2, but there was a few "Royal Hussars" types eg 4th, 10th, 13/18, 15/19, and just to confuse the issue some armoured units did use "Humber" armoured cars. Any photos of him in uniform? Any odd badges lying about?

WC
I've just asked if he has any pics, awaiting reply. Ref anything else, that's all he has.
 
What you've got there is a 1914 Star and a British War Medal: missing is the Victory Medal. That trio are sometimes referred to as 'Pip, Squeak and Wilfred' (named after cartoon characters of the day).

What is also missing is the clasp to the Star "5th AUG.–22nd NOV. 1914", erroneously known as the 'Mons Star' as many of the Old Contemptibles believed that it recognised only the first Battle of Mons.

...............and you're in luck: he was a pre-WWI regular, first enlisting with the Lincolnshire Regiment in 1907. Some of his Service records survive-including the fact that he was charged with Theft of 6 x pairs of socks at Aldershot in Sept 1909 (fined 21 shillings!).

If you want, I'll download what I can.
 

Richie_B

Old-Salt
Ancestry has a Service Record for a William John Garner 8283 Lincolnshire Regiment. Enlisted 7th December 1907. Age 18y 10m. Born Southampton. Occupation General Labourer.

Garner.jpg
 
Here is a potted history assuming he remained with 2/Lincs throughout the war, not a given if he was wounded and then sent back out (particularly during the latter phases of the war).

The source for the information below is The Long, Long Trail website:

Home - The Long, Long Trail

2nd Battalion

August 1914 : in Bermuda and moved to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Returned to England 3 October 1914 and on arrival came under command of 25th Brigade in 8th Division.
6 November 1914 : landed at le Havre.
4 February 1918 : transferred to 62nd Brigade, 21st Division.

8th Division
The history of 8th Division
The 8th Division was formed in England during October 1914 by the bringing together of regular army units which had been stationed at various points around the British Empire. The Division moved to France in November 1914, a badly-needed reinforcement to the BEF. It remained on the Western Front throughout the rest of the war, taking part in the following actions:

1915
The Battle of Neuve Chapelle
The Battle of Aubers
The action of Bois Grenier (a diversionary attack coinciding with the Battle of Loos)

1916
The Battle of Albert (the first phase of the Battles of the Somme 1916)
For a detailed account read Martin Middlebrook's 'First Day on the Somme' because the CO (Reginald Bastard - really!) features heavily.

1917
The German retreat to the Hindenburg Line
The Battle of Pilkem+
The Battle of Langemarck+
The battles marked + are phases of the Third Battle of Ypres

1918
[Snipped as 2/Lincs moved to 21st Division]

21st Division
The history of 21st Division
This Division was established in September 1914, as part of Army Order 388 authorising Kitchener’s Third New Army, K3.

Advanced parties embarked for France began on 2 September 1915 and the main body began to cross the Channel five days later. Units moved to assemble near Tilques, completing concentration on 13 September. The Division’s first experience was truly appalling. Having been in France for only a few days, lengthy forced marches brought it into the reserve for the British assault at Loos. GHQ planning left it too far behind to be a useful reinforcement on the first day, but it was sent into action on 26 September, whereupon it suffered over 3,800 casualties for very little gain.

The Division served on the Western Front for the remainder of the war, taking part in many of the significant actions:

[Snipped as 2/Lincs were in 8th Division up until this point]

1918
The Battle of St Quentin+
The First Battle of Bapaume+
The battles marked + are phases of the First Battles of the Somme 1918
The Battle of Messines=
The Second Battle of Kemmel=
The battles marked = are phases of the Battles of the Lys 1918
The Battle of the Aisne 1918
The Battle of Albert++
The Second Battle of Bapaume++
The battles marked ++ are phases of the Second Battles of the Somme 1918
The Battle of Epehy^
The Battle of the St Quentin Canal^
The Battle of Cambrai 1918^
The battles marked ^ are phases of the Battles of the Hindenburg Line
The Battle of the Selle, a phase of the Final Advance in Picardy

When the Armistice came into effect at 11am on 11 November 1918 the units of the Division were halted around Berlaimont. Next day they moved to Beaufort, going between 12-20 December to west of Amiens. Demobilisation began and by 19 May 1919 the Division ceased to exist. In all the 21st Division had suffered the loss of 55581 killed, wounded and missing

You never said if he survived the war.

Cheers

Berlin
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
What you've got there is a 1914 Star and a British War Medal: missing is the Victory Medal. That trio are sometimes referred to as 'Pip, Squeak and Wilfred' (named after cartoon characters of the day).

What is also missing is the clasp to the Star "5th AUG.–22nd NOV. 1914", erroneously known as the 'Mons Star' as many of the Old Contemptibles believed that it recognised only the first Battle of Mons.

...............and you're in luck: he was a pre-WWI regular, first enlisting with the Lincolnshire Regiment in 1907. Some of his Service records survive-including the fact that he was charged with Theft of 6 x pairs of socks at Aldershot in Sept 1909 (fined 21 shillings!).

If you want, I'll download what I can.
If you could, that'd be great.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reference my last a quick search on the CWGC website doesn't flag his name up in either a war cemetery or a memorial to the missing.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Reference my last a quick search on the CWGC website doesn't flag his name up in either a war cemetery or a memorial to the missing.
He's not quite sure about his G/Grandfather but his Grandfather survived. The only problem he has is that he's now the oldest in his entire family. He has told me that he has more medals put away and will send the pics on to me later.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Fugly

LE
DirtyBAT
Got my Great Grandads medals from WW1, only the 2. he didn't get the star because he rolled a 7 on the Somme. I've got his records and bugged the Medals Office but they're adamant.
 
Got my Great Grandads medals from WW1, only the 2. he didn't get the star because he rolled a 7 on the Somme. I've got his records and bugged the Medals Office but they're adamant.
If the old boy didn't serve with an established unit in F and F before 31 Dec 1915, then he wouldn't have been eligible.
 
1915, early on. One of the first casualties. Hence no medal for his sacrifice.
Meh-if he cashed in his chips in '15, then it wouldn't have been for the Somme, chap (1 Jul 1916 and all that).

............still, death in F and F in 1915 would still have qualified him for the 1915 Star I'm thinking-care to PM his details and I'll have a gander if you wish.
 
1915, early on. One of the first casualties. Hence no medal for his sacrifice.
Are you saying that he failed to qualify for the '14-'15 Star because he had the misfortune to be killed in 1916; even though he entered the qualifying theatre of operations between the specified time limits of 23 Nov 14 and 31 Dec 15?
 

Fugly

LE
DirtyBAT
Are you saying that he failed to qualify for the '14-'15 Star because he had the misfortune to be killed in 1916; even though he entered the qualifying theatre of operations between the specified time limits of 23 Nov 14 and 31 Dec 15?
I'll dig the records out. I know it was "Sanctuary Wood" at the start of the war
 
Sanctuary Wood was in the Ypres Salient:

upload_2016-8-10_16-37-48.png


Who was he with?
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
just to say good topic troops , i have leaned a bit thanks .
 
Afternoon , I'm after a bit of help for a mate who's just been given some family medals but wants to know a bit about the history of his Great Grandfather's and Grandfather's military service. he's sent me a couple of pics which I hope are of some help, I also have their names and in one case service number. 2nd pic is of his G/Grandfather's medals and his Grandfather's call up papers.
From the 1st pic, I've managed to grasp that his G/Grandfather served with the 2nd Bn, Lincolnshire Regt during WW1. His full name was William Jack Garner, also the name of his Grandfather who, my mate reckons, served with the "Royal Humbers" as a desert rat, but he can't find anything to back that up. He was also landed on Normandy in 44.
If any of you history buffs could help out, he'd be grateful.
View attachment 254930 View attachment 254933

Joker, Mr Spode helped me with this for a friend ...not sure if he just does WW2 jobbies though?

Lt Col Frank Hines RAOC
 

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