Right, Im a junior NCO with 8 years experience and im posting on here for the first time because of a situation thats arisen within my troop. It turns out that my (female) troop commander has been having an 'inappropriate' relationship with one of our troop corporals. Currently im the only that knows about it due to me witnessing them kissing whilst on exercise, however that was the final confirmation as there was PLENTY of circumstancial evidence before this. The problem isnt that he beat me to it (!) more that shes a young girl just out of sandbags and his opinions are quickly becoming hers (hes a signed-off, teflon biff chit sporting whinger) As i said im the only one who knows about it but there is a lot of suspicion and lets just say the troop isnt the most fun place to be working at the moment. Ive tried sounding out our staffie about it without telling him what i know but he gave the impression that he knew something was going on but isnt going to do anything about it. Just need some advice on whats the best thing to do? I dont want anyones career ruined nor have i got an axe to grind but somethings got to be done...
Need advice on a sensitive issue...
- Thread starter freicorp
- Start date
MATT 6 would recommend a confidential chat, followed by reporting if necessary.
Talk to the NCO first. If no joy, and you genuinely deem it sufficiently serious, ask your staffie to mention it to the officerette. Thereafter, you could make a formal complaint.
Bear in mind, though, that the Service Test is whether the behaviour has an adverse effect on the performance (or perception) of the unit. By definition, this means that such behaviour may be tolerated provided that it is discrete. If the sum total of evidence to date is that only you've seen them kissing, then this may well fall into this category. If the unit's performance has deteriorated, then the staffie should be getting to grips with her anyway, without need of being told of any romantic liaison.
Talk to the NCO first. If no joy, and you genuinely deem it sufficiently serious, ask your staffie to mention it to the officerette. Thereafter, you could make a formal complaint.
Bear in mind, though, that the Service Test is whether the behaviour has an adverse effect on the performance (or perception) of the unit. By definition, this means that such behaviour may be tolerated provided that it is discrete. If the sum total of evidence to date is that only you've seen them kissing, then this may well fall into this category. If the unit's performance has deteriorated, then the staffie should be getting to grips with her anyway, without need of being told of any romantic liaison.
It would have a negative effect if you go and say something direct to your OC or above. Regardless of the outcome to these two you will be viewed negatively and i can't see a good CR coming of it anymore.
Regardless of how much OC's and CO's appear to applaud moral courage and doing the right thing, the fact is that very few of them actually want the extra bother of dealing with a situation.
I see three possible ways out:
1. Spread the word. Mention it to the biggest gobsh*t you know and sit back whilst the word gets around to the OC - You can't be accused of directly dropping anyone in it.
2. Write an anonymous letter to the OC/CO (you choose how high you want to go). Lay it out correctly and explain why you wish to remain anonymous.
3. Speak to the Padre ask for advice on how to deal with the situation. The padre will inevitably speak to the CO bypassing all channels to get there and he is very unlikely to mention your name.
Regardless of how much OC's and CO's appear to applaud moral courage and doing the right thing, the fact is that very few of them actually want the extra bother of dealing with a situation.
I see three possible ways out:
1. Spread the word. Mention it to the biggest gobsh*t you know and sit back whilst the word gets around to the OC - You can't be accused of directly dropping anyone in it.
2. Write an anonymous letter to the OC/CO (you choose how high you want to go). Lay it out correctly and explain why you wish to remain anonymous.
3. Speak to the Padre ask for advice on how to deal with the situation. The padre will inevitably speak to the CO bypassing all channels to get there and he is very unlikely to mention your name.
I'm long away from the Army but find myself puzzled at the poster and the responders problem/responses. Just what is the problem here? Do we need Don Quixote charging at this windmill?
I'm sure there are other matters within the knowledge of this JNCO where CoC attention might be drawn with some benefit. Service life is a melange of good and bad and by definition there will always be situations where one is concerned. Sure - wrong to breach rank structure (I was courting a US Army female Captain whilst I was a Sgt and that was back in the '50s) but what is the objection? If something is done that impacts on actual events - fine. Just him and her getting it on does - what? Is this poster in a unit where all rank to rank relationships are perfect - him and his RSM, him and his immediate supervisor all 100% right and proper QR fashion.
I'm sure there are other matters within the knowledge of this JNCO where CoC attention might be drawn with some benefit. Service life is a melange of good and bad and by definition there will always be situations where one is concerned. Sure - wrong to breach rank structure (I was courting a US Army female Captain whilst I was a Sgt and that was back in the '50s) but what is the objection? If something is done that impacts on actual events - fine. Just him and her getting it on does - what? Is this poster in a unit where all rank to rank relationships are perfect - him and his RSM, him and his immediate supervisor all 100% right and proper QR fashion.
seen this happen before-it ended in a VERY high profile case (front page of the Scum). The fallout was brutal and the message was clear-why didn't someone tell the CoC this was going on.
You need to display the Moral Courage to reveal something that undermines the basis of all the Values that make us what we are.
Go see your OC. He will not reveal his sources and a promissing career may be saved by a swift posting, because if it goes on it WILL be destroyed.
You need to display the Moral Courage to reveal something that undermines the basis of all the Values that make us what we are.
Go see your OC. He will not reveal his sources and a promissing career may be saved by a swift posting, because if it goes on it WILL be destroyed.
The matter can be cleared up very quickly & calmly with a posting of either party, in order that they can continue the relationship (should they choose) but without affecting - or being suspecting of affecting - command relationships within the troop - which it clearly already is starting to do. Stay anonymous - and personally, I would avoid going into writing, since it smacks of vengefulness - but, if I was the OC, I would want to know this information.
My bold. If the padre does this without your permission then he is failing in his duty. THe padre is the only person in the army who is not duty bound to report such matters to the CO even the MO is required to report matters to the CO even if in civ st they would be covered by the doctor paitient thing. Having said that.... If you tell the padre and let it be known to him your not just getting it off your chest then yes he has the ability to give a nudge and a wink directly to your CO. This would be by far the least damaging method. As other posters have said if the boss is made aware in an "unofficial" way then a 2 year posting to FI maybe just what is needed to save reputations of the individuals and the unit and most importantly.... the Army as a whole.
There is another thread running re a female officer shagging a male snco. Nowhere do the comments in that thread attract the - not sure how appropriate this word is - santicmonius attitude we have here that something HAS to be done.
OldRedCap: Times have changed. At one time, a cross-rank relationship would have been immediate grounds for dismissal but they still happened if people were willing to turn an unofficial blind eye. Nowadays, such a relationship is permitted, but within guidelines - largely unwritten and subject to personal whims, but permitted nontheless.
The criteria is that the relationship mustn't interfere with the performance of the the unit, nor must it bring the Army into a negative light. The performance can be affected if the junior party is perceived to be given preferential treatment. Note "perceived" - it takes into account the emotions of people outside the relationship and doesn't require physical evidence. This makes it a very woolly subject.
If the relationship is discrete, then it shouldn't bring the Army into a negative light. If one of them captures their sessions on video and subsequently posts the images on Pornotube or sells them on eBay or to one of the newspapers, then there's a problem.
The Army officially adopts a laissez-faire attitude in line with modern thinking but also takes on the PC pandering that we all love so much. As a result, there'll never be the hard and fast documented rules that have traditionally made a soldier's life simple. (Keep to the rules, you're OK - flout them, you're in deep sh*t).
In the instance quoted, if freicorp is the only one who is aware of the relationship and he's not bothered, then there's no problem. If he is bothered (and it seems he is) he could ask for a transfer, he could let the parties know (via the NCO) that he is aware of the relationship and request that it be hidden better or he could report the matter upwards. As someone mentioned earlier, the latter option does nobody any good and may actually backfire on freicorp - under MATT6, this is considered the action of last resort.
I like the idea of palming the issue onto the Padre, for all he carries a commission, he is probably the one bloke that any rank can talk to on a level footing.
The criteria is that the relationship mustn't interfere with the performance of the the unit, nor must it bring the Army into a negative light. The performance can be affected if the junior party is perceived to be given preferential treatment. Note "perceived" - it takes into account the emotions of people outside the relationship and doesn't require physical evidence. This makes it a very woolly subject.
If the relationship is discrete, then it shouldn't bring the Army into a negative light. If one of them captures their sessions on video and subsequently posts the images on Pornotube or sells them on eBay or to one of the newspapers, then there's a problem.
The Army officially adopts a laissez-faire attitude in line with modern thinking but also takes on the PC pandering that we all love so much. As a result, there'll never be the hard and fast documented rules that have traditionally made a soldier's life simple. (Keep to the rules, you're OK - flout them, you're in deep sh*t).
In the instance quoted, if freicorp is the only one who is aware of the relationship and he's not bothered, then there's no problem. If he is bothered (and it seems he is) he could ask for a transfer, he could let the parties know (via the NCO) that he is aware of the relationship and request that it be hidden better or he could report the matter upwards. As someone mentioned earlier, the latter option does nobody any good and may actually backfire on freicorp - under MATT6, this is considered the action of last resort.
I like the idea of palming the issue onto the Padre, for all he carries a commission, he is probably the one bloke that any rank can talk to on a level footing.
The long and the short of it is this, I dont have a problem with the two of them having a relationship, the problem is that his attitudes are starting to influence hers and ive recently seen two private soldiers get a slating in their 6 monthly reports from her for things which simply arent true. It cant be a coincidence that her opinions of these individuals seem to be EXACTLY the same as the nco's in question, when other members of the troop (including myself) think the two guys are promising lads with a good future. Thats why Im concerned that their relationship is adversely affecting the troop.
Yes it can. When writing the reports, she'll be picking up on information received, some from her own experience, some second-hand. If an officer asks you for a pen picture of other soldiers, this should be your own views, not a collective opinion. There may be issues of which you and some others may not be aware, which the NCO in question is keeping quiet about within the troop (to maintain morale, perhaps) but feels strongly enough about to mention to the officer.
Posts on the ARRSE won't give you a definitive answer because it all depends on your specific situation. I'm not suggesting that this is the case in this instance, but in a similar situation it could be the NCO in question who has his sh*t together while those around him are slack.
Posts on the ARRSE won't give you a definitive answer because it all depends on your specific situation. I'm not suggesting that this is the case in this instance, but in a similar situation it could be the NCO in question who has his sh*t together while those around him are slack.
I get the impression that you already know what you should do, but you are fishing for moral support on this forum. Others wont do your dirty work for you. You are an NCO and you need to make a decision. Be it the right or wrong decision, you still need to make it. A lack of moral courage from an NCO can sometimes be more dangerous than walking slowly towards the enemy.
We are falling into the trap of speculation and opinion rather than hard advice here for the problem at hand. Your comment (my bold) is immaterial.
Ultimately, if this relationship is between two folk in the same CoC, it is unappropriate, however we think attitudes have moved on. It is also the opinion of someone within that command, that it is affecting the working environment. That is enough to move on.
Either way, the matter should be reported and the CoC should deal. It may not become official enough to fcuk up either career but it needs to be dealt with.
Ultimately, if this relationship is between two folk in the same CoC, it is unappropriate, however we think attitudes have moved on. It is also the opinion of someone within that command, that it is affecting the working environment. That is enough to move on.
Either way, the matter should be reported and the CoC should deal. It may not become official enough to fcuk up either career but it needs to be dealt with.
You may or may not be right in all of this, but the fact that you think it demonstrates the negative effect this relationship is having and why such relationships generally fail the service test. Your personal grown-up choices are to live with it or, do something about it. From what you are saying, the former does not appear to be an option for you.
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