• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

ND by Russian air force pilot kills oppo

#1
:cry: Su-25 that crashed outside Vladivostok shot down by wingman - source

VLADIVOSTOK. March 26 (Interfax-AVN) - A Sukhoi Su-25 attack plane,
which crashed outside Vladivostok last week, was shot down by a missile
accidentally fired by a wingman, a source from the commission
investigating the incident told Interfax on Wednesday.
"The theory that the crash was caused by a mechanical fault has not
been confirmed. It has been discovered that the Su-25 attack plane was
shot down by a missile fired by a wingman," he said.
It was reported earlier that the Su-25 plane exploded in flight,
and its pilot failed to eject and was killed.
The incident took place 143 km away from Vladivostok in the
Chernigovka garrison. An oversight commission was appointed to
investigate the causes of the crash, and Air Force Commander Col. Gen.
Alexander Zelin issued an order restricting all Su-25 flights until the
investigation is over.
 
#2
Who knows why it has happened?

Likely if was a fatal mistake of a pilot or maybe... cherche la femme.
 
#3
How do you accidently fire a missle?

I thought there were a couple of redundant safety's that would have to be disabled.

Might be ancient kit badly needing replaced.
 
#4
Probably finger trouble. I think it was an RAF Phantom that shot down a Jaguar in the early 80's? when they put the master arm or some thing to on. When the trigger was pulled there was a whimper of 'oh fcuk' as a missile came off the rails and downed the Jag. :oops: I believe the pilot ejected ok in this case though.
 
#5
You're right - in 1984 an F-4 in RAF Germany potted a Jaguar during an exercise. The pilot forgot he had live 'Winders on board, and the master arm switch wasn't taped over as it should have been. He squeezed the trigger thinking he had aquisition missiles on board only, to get video of the Jag in his sights. Woosh - weapon came off, hit Jag. The Jag pilot banged out. The poor guy had an engine failure on take-off soon after that as well, and had to get out again. I think his career as a pilot ended after that.
 
#6
There was a TACEVAL on at the time, the first Phantom the pilot ran to went u/s, so he was given the actual QRA jet, with, as Codbutt said, live missiles loaded. The jet was not prepared properly (Master Arm taped over etc) and in the heat of the moment forgot he was in the QRA jet, not an exercise jet.

Rumour has it the Germans also playing went home at that point, as "Der Britischers are playing for real on this one!" (or badly accented words to that effect).
 
#7
codbutt said:
You're right - in 1984 an F-4 in RAF Germany potted a Jaguar during an exercise. The pilot forgot he had live 'Winders on board, and the master arm switch wasn't taped over as it should have been. He squeezed the trigger thinking he had aquisition missiles on board only, to get video of the Jag in his sights. Woosh - weapon came off, hit Jag. The Jag pilot banged out. The poor guy had an engine failure on take-off soon after that as well, and had to get out again. I think his career as a pilot ended after that.
I would have thought his career ended not so much due to any possible counts of human error. I'm sure I have heard it said several times that once you have banged out twice the strain placed on the pilots spine means that if he were to do it a third time he could end up with severe spinal damage.
 
#8
The RAF Jaguar shootdown occured on 25 May 82 during a TACEVAL of RAF Wildenrath. Those who remember TACEVALs, especially in Germany, will understand the immense pressure that units were placed under and the shootdown was a classic flight safety chain of cock ups, oversights and circumstances.

As part of the TACEVAL, the Station was tasked to generate a specific number of aircraft fully armed with 4xSparrow, 4xAIM-9G and a gun, ready for flight within 6 hours. Thereafter normal practice was to download the weapons before the flying phase but, on this occasion the Stn Cdr (quite legally) chose to have the flying phase done with live aircraft. Precautions for flying with live weapons involved taping the pilots Master Arm switch with red tape & pulling the trigger Circuit Breaker (CB) in the rear cockpit. On that day the F-4 sqn had run out of red tape (!) and the groundcrewman involved in obtaining some was delayed by a TACEVAL 'incident'. Shortly thereafter the crew were scrambled. Their initial aircraft went u/s and there was a hurried change of aircraft. Although the crew noted the aircraft was armed (as had been their primary jet) and queried the lack of red tape in the second jet, they were pressured to accept the discrepancy and fly the sortie.

On all training sorties the Master Arm switch was made immediately after take off so that training attacks could be carried out; the switch needed to be made to get the acquisition growl from the Sidewinder and for filming attacks. Reverting instinctively to training mode, the pilot therefore selected the Master Arm. In addition, the Weapons Panel had a fault and showed one AIM-7 (it should have showed all 4) and one AIM-9 (which it did even with 4 on board) which is what the crew would have expected in the training fit. The crew were now in a high workload situation, in busy airspace, attempting a low level engagement. Sadly, instinctive trg now took over.

Meanwhile, the CB isolating the pilot's 'trigger' was on the RH wall of the rear cockpit legwell. This particular navigator was 'well built' and was carrying his pistol (part of the exercise) in his RH leg pocket. This had been pushed hard against the CB panel during the sortie which crucially allowed the CB to be made thus completing the circuit it was trying to protect. At the moment of engagement, the Luftwaffe GCI controller neglected to call 'check switches safe' to the crew although this was probably not a factor.

The rest is history and the Jaguar was hit by a single AIM-9G in what should have been a routine, practise engagement. Thankfully, the pilot ejected safely and subsequently rose to the rank of Gp Capt (by that stage he was probably fairly short however as he had to bang out of another Jag less than a year after this incident following a bird strike over Scotland!!).

Although the pilot and nav were both tried by court marshal for gross negligence, F-4 and Jag aircrew mostly felt that this was extremely harsh and it was a case of 'there but for the Grace of God'. TACEVAL requirements were changed as a direct result of the incident.

In recent years there have been similar incidents involving the USN, Greece and Pakistan. I suspect that in the case of this Su-25, some similar chain of events occurred which may or may not have involved human error. Sadly on this occasion, the pilot did not escape.

RIP.

Regards,
MM
 
#11
codbutt said:
You're right - in 1984 an F-4 in RAF Germany potted a Jaguar during an exercise. The pilot forgot he had live 'Winders on board, and the master arm switch wasn't taped over as it should have been. He squeezed the trigger thinking he had aquisition missiles on board only, to get video of the Jag in his sights. Woosh - weapon came off, hit Jag. The Jag pilot banged out. The poor guy had an engine failure on take-off soon after that as well, and had to get out again. I think his career as a pilot ended after that.
I believe it was in 1982, II AC Sqn did the post crash recce and the pictures looked very suspicious as there were 2 crash sites, the Winder neatly cut the Jag in 2 bits. The pilot Steve G. got out all right and continued flying career ( but not near Wildenrath!).
 
#12
Are we sure this is even true about the Russians? After all surely this is just more anti-Russian propaganda.
 
#14
Domovoy said:
Sergey, don't take a bait from Inf/... He is looking for an excuse to start spouting anti-Russian bile.
Domovoy, Inf/MP and other our friends are highly intelligent and really very nice. Such unclever methods as 'using a bait' are being used here rarely (if ever).

Personally I'm sure that our friend Inf/MP knows my answer. Of course it is not anti-Russian propaganda. Sadly it is a tragic accident that could be prevented (as many other cases of 'friendly fire').

The investigation is ongoing but the most probable version has been sounded as I understand.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080326/102269074.html

An investigation into the cause of the incident has been launched and a special investigation commission has been working at the crash site for a week.

Earlier findings suggested that the explosion of a rocket launched from the plane during a midair live firing exercise caused the crash, but on Wednesday a source close to investigation said the aircraft was downed by a missile accidentally launched by a wingman from an accompanying plane.

However, Drobyshevsky warned against jumping to any conclusions until the official investigation is complete.

"The investigation is still under way," Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky said.
 
#15
Magic_Mushroom said:
The RAF Jaguar shootdown occured on 25 May 82 during a TACEVAL of RAF Wildenrath. .....
Regards,
MM
You might know the truth about this one then MM:

Back in the 1980s as an Air Cadet there was a story going around about a Tornado at low level, comes out of cloud to see an A10 coming head to head on a collision course. Before the pilot could take evasive action the Nav hit command eject.

"No injuries were sustained on ejection but upon landing the pilot struck the navigator" we were told.

Some versions had the doomed Tornado landing on a W. German Leopard tank.

Sound familiar?
 
#16
Do they still get to paint a "kill stripe" or whatever they're called on their plane??? ;)
 
#17
inbredyokel666 said:
How do you accidently fire a missle?

I thought there were a couple of redundant safety's that would have to be disabled.

Might be ancient kit badly needing replaced.
I remember I read once that a USAF F-100 Super Sabre was running a mock attack on a B-52 when the pilot started screaming over the radio at the bomber's crew to bail out because one of his missiles had just fired. The bomber got shot down and I recall a couple of the crew were killed, turns out the cause was a droplet of moisture on one of the Super Sabre's circuit boards had made the missile fire spotaneously. Then again that was in the 50s so I suppose they've come up with a safeguard by now.
 
#18
codbutt said:
You're right - in 1984 an F-4 in RAF Germany potted a Jaguar during an exercise. The pilot forgot he had live 'Winders on board, and the master arm switch wasn't taped over as it should have been. He squeezed the trigger thinking he had aquisition missiles on board only, to get video of the Jag in his sights. Woosh - weapon came off, hit Jag. The Jag pilot banged out. The poor guy had an engine failure on take-off soon after that as well, and had to get out again. I think his career as a pilot ended after that.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Deary me, must be kinda of depressing in a way 8)
 
#19
EX_STAB said:
Magic_Mushroom said:
The RAF Jaguar shootdown occured on 25 May 82 during a TACEVAL of RAF Wildenrath. .....
Regards,
MM
You might know the truth about this one then MM:

Back in the 1980s as an Air Cadet there was a story going around about a Tornado at low level, comes out of cloud to see an A-10 coming head to head on a collision course. Before the pilot could take evasive action the Nav hit command eject.

"No injuries were sustained on ejection but upon landing the pilot struck the navigator" we were told.

Some versions had the doomed Tornado landing on a W. German Leopard tank.

Sound familiar?
That's broadly accurate except the landing on a Leopard bit. The incident was around 84 iirc and very soon after a Luftwaffe Tornado and its crew had been lost flying past a High Intensity Radio Transmission Area (HIRTA) corresponding to a TV transmitter. The transmissions had affected the Tornado's electronic flight control system and caused it to depart controlled flight. The incident was widely publicised in the RAF and was central to the subsequent RAF accident.

The Tornado GR1 in question was at low level near a similar HIRTA and the nav was heads down working the radar or something like that. A USAF A-10 came over a ridge and the RAF pilot bunted and rolled hard to avoid without having the time to make a call to the nav. Nav feels the g coming on, looks up to see the aircraft rapid rolling and descending unexpectedly and, aware of the proximity of the HIRTA, believes his aircraft has departed. Perhaps understandably he pulls the handle and his pilot then finds himself unexpectedly dangling underneath his parachute.

I'd also heard that there was a fairly robust exchange between pilot and nav on the ground but that could well be apocryphal.

Regards,
MM
 
#20
Magic_Mushroom said:
EX_STAB said:
Magic_Mushroom said:
The RAF Jaguar shootdown occured on 25 May 82 during a TACEVAL of RAF Wildenrath. .....
Regards,
MM
You might know the truth about this one then MM:

Back in the 1980s as an Air Cadet there was a story going around about a Tornado at low level, comes out of cloud to see an A-10 coming head to head on a collision course. Before the pilot could take evasive action the Nav hit command eject.

"No injuries were sustained on ejection but upon landing the pilot struck the navigator" we were told.

Some versions had the doomed Tornado landing on a W. German Leopard tank.

Sound familiar?
That's broadly accurate except the landing on a Leopard bit. The incident was around 84 iirc and very soon after a Luftwaffe Tornado and its crew had been lost flying past a High Intensity Radio Transmission Area (HIRTA) corresponding to a TV transmitter. The transmissions had affected the Tornado's electronic flight control system and caused it to depart controlled flight. The incident was widely publicised in the RAF and was central to the subsequent RAF accident.

The Tornado GR1 in question was at low level near a similar HIRTA and the nav was heads down working the radar or something like that. A USAF A-10 came over a ridge and the RAF pilot bunted and rolled hard to avoid without having the time to make a call to the nav. Nav feels the g coming on, looks up to see the aircraft rapid rolling and descending unexpectedly and, aware of the proximity of the HIRTA, believes his aircraft has departed. Perhaps understandably he pulls the handle and his pilot then finds himself unexpectedly dangling underneath his parachute.

I'd also heard that there was a fairly robust exchange between pilot and nav on the ground but that could well be apocryphal.

Regards,
MM
I can imagine the exchange, 'you w@nker what did you do that for?' :D
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top