NCOs over Officers?

#1
Is it true that the AAC is more likely to take on NCO's as pilots rather then officers due to them doing as good a job as a officer but won't cost as much? (wage-wise)

:?
 
#2
Near enough? Stand by to be mauled by one or two on this site!

The major difference is the amount of flying that an NCO against an officer will do whilst there career progresses. I have a good friend that bailed at Capt as having been told he was off to do Adjt he wasn't going to be doing a lot of flying thereafter. Not a good thing to hear for someone that had been an instructor.

AAC still requires to recruit and train a set number of officers each year to fill the posts it needs to, both at Regt and staff. I don't think this number has changed for a while.

As to those that come in on attachment, the cost of training far out ways the cost of wages in the short and long run and that is the same for both NCO and officers.
 
#3
Didn't the NAO praise the use of NCO Pilots by the AAC and suggest the RNAS and RAF have a look too?

The RAF declared that NCOs couldn't possibly master the intricate requirements of Fast Air.....

Perhaps a "Flying Officer" stream should be set up? Might offer slower promotion for the Officers, but hey.... Flying a desk as a Major/Lt Col or flying an Apache as a Capt?
 
#4
chocolate_frog said:
The RAF declared that NCOs couldn't possibly master the intricate requirements of Fast Air.....

Perhaps a "Flying Officer" stream should be set up? Might offer slower promotion for the Officers, but hey.... Flying a desk as a Major/Lt Col or flying an Apache as a Capt?
the crabs used to have such a stream - Specialist Aircrew, probably still do ... well, sort of, everyone started off aiming at AVM and then got offered a choice when it was clear they were good aircrew but wouldn't necessarily lead a squadron. lots of Flt Lts / Sqn Ldrs on very good wages as they got/get extra money to make up for the sacrifice of not flying a desk.
 
#5
Excognito said:
chocolate_frog said:
The RAF declared that NCOs couldn't possibly master the intricate requirements of Fast Air.....

Perhaps a "Flying Officer" stream should be set up? Might offer slower promotion for the Officers, but hey.... Flying a desk as a Major/Lt Col or flying an Apache as a Capt?
the crabs used to have such a stream - Specialist Aircrew, probably still do ... well, sort of, everyone started off aiming at AVM and then got offered a choice when it was clear they were good aircrew but wouldn't necessarily lead a squadron. lots of Flt Lts / Sqn Ldrs on very good wages as they got/get extra money to make up for the sacrifice of not flying a desk.
That must be a hard burden to bear :D
 
#6
chocolate_frog said:
Excognito said:
chocolate_frog said:
The RAF declared that NCOs couldn't possibly master the intricate requirements of Fast Air.....

Perhaps a "Flying Officer" stream should be set up? Might offer slower promotion for the Officers, but hey.... Flying a desk as a Major/Lt Col or flying an Apache as a Capt?
the crabs used to have such a stream - Specialist Aircrew, probably still do ... well, sort of, everyone started off aiming at AVM and then got offered a choice when it was clear they were good aircrew but wouldn't necessarily lead a squadron. lots of Flt Lts / Sqn Ldrs on very good wages as they got/get extra money to make up for the sacrifice of not flying a desk.
That must be a hard burden to bear :D
Well, it's a dirty job, but I guess they all can't play the triangle, somebody's got to pick up that violin :cry:

I don't know how they put up with it for just an additional 16 to 20 £k a year.
http://www.hmforces.co.uk/content/Special_Pay
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
The Royal Navy had rating pilots during the war but (as I understand it) they ended up cut out of a lot of squadron discussion that, naturally, tended to go on in the wardroom. After the war those that were suitable were offered commissions and the others (I believe) were let go.

A naval aircraft is part of the ship's weapons systems, not an entity on its own. In 'small ships' (as they used to be called - destroyers and frigates) - the Flight Commander is a member of the command team and the Captain's adviser on all matters to do with aviation. He is also responsible for all the FAA personnel on board. This could be a second tour job where there is only one helo on board and of course a valuable training in leadership for someone hoping to go on to sqn command. It's not easy to see where someone only expected to get in the cab, fly it, land on and that's it would fit in here.

One of the FAA's big problems used to be not having enough people at the top table later on and again this is partly about the sort of people you train up at the bottom. Personally I think this is one reason why the RN is still stuck with VSTOL/F35B with all its payload/range/saunter time limitations - there's nobody left who understands what real carriers and carrier air power can do.

A bit of wafu input to this might be interesting.
 
#8
The reason is a simple one that came about during the early days of our Nuclear deterrent including airborne munitions (Nuclear). Not sure if it was government or MoD but it was decided that an NCO would not have the clearance to fly with such as Aircraft Captain/Commander. The RN and RAF then binned NCO's whilst the Army argued that no nuclear weapons could be carried by Rotary and as were a Rotary only force we remain with NCO Aircrew.
 
#9
Excognito said:
chocolate_frog said:
The RAF declared that NCOs couldn't possibly master the intricate requirements of Fast Air.....

Perhaps a "Flying Officer" stream should be set up? Might offer slower promotion for the Officers, but hey.... Flying a desk as a Major/Lt Col or flying an Apache as a Capt?
the crabs used to have such a stream - Specialist Aircrew, probably still do ... well, sort of, everyone started off aiming at AVM and then got offered a choice when it was clear they were good aircrew but wouldn't necessarily lead a squadron. lots of Flt Lts / Sqn Ldrs on very good wages as they got/get extra money to make up for the sacrifice of not flying a desk.
The crabs still do, albeit harder to get nowadays. Think it got renamed as well - Professional Aviators Spine or something like that.
 
#10
seaweed said:
The Royal Navy had rating pilots during the war but (as I understand it) they ended up cut out of a lot of squadron discussion that, naturally, tended to go on in the wardroom. After the war those that were suitable were offered commissions and the others (I believe) were let go.

A naval aircraft is part of the ship's weapons systems, not an entity on its own. In 'small ships' (as they used to be called - destroyers and frigates) - the Flight Commander is a member of the command team and the Captain's adviser on all matters to do with aviation. He is also responsible for all the FAA personnel on board. This could be a second tour job where there is only one helo on board and of course a valuable training in leadership for someone hoping to go on to sqn command. It's not easy to see where someone only expected to get in the cab, fly it, land on and that's it would fit in here.

One of the FAA's big problems used to be not having enough people at the top table later on and again this is partly about the sort of people you train up at the bottom. Personally I think this is one reason why the RN is still stuck with VSTOL/F35B with all its payload/range/saunter time limitations - there's nobody left who understands what real carriers and carrier air power can do.

A bit of wafu input to this might be interesting.
The RAF had a similar problem with Sgts not getting info or excluded from various chats.

Re professional flyers, in a one aircraft boat, then there is no place for the NCO (perhaps)....

but in a multi aircraft boat there could be positions and roles....

I saw a picture on the net of a concept boat based on the T45 but with a flight deck to the rear. Bit like the Moskva of old.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#12
Chief_Two said:
The US Army has used large numbers of WOs as aviators since Vietnam and the US Navy has recently started a similar program for Warrant Officers.
And they were entitled to a salute as well :D

Welcome back Chief2. I have missed your bleatings about the status of WOs and your complete misunderstanding of the differences between national armed forces.
 
#14
Auld-Yin said:
Chief_Two said:
The US Army has used large numbers of WOs as aviators since Vietnam and the US Navy has recently started a similar program for Warrant Officers.
And they were entitled to a salute as well :D

Welcome back Chief2. I have missed your bleatings about the status of WOs and your complete misunderstanding of the differences between national armed forces.
The US WO program could be a solution to British AAC aviator shortages.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#15
Chief_Two said:
Auld-Yin said:
Chief_Two said:
The US Army has used large numbers of WOs as aviators since Vietnam and the US Navy has recently started a similar program for Warrant Officers.
And they were entitled to a salute as well :D

Welcome back Chief2. I have missed your bleatings about the status of WOs and your complete misunderstanding of the differences between national armed forces.
The US WO program could be a solution to British AAC aviator shortages.
Good to see you haven't changed either :(
 

Similar threads

Top