Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe - What do you reckon?

[Provost]

I think that, apart from all other considerations, it's a lesson in the risks of maintaining dual citizenship. Had the Iranians motives for detaining her been anything other than debt recovery, she could have been there indefinitely.

 

[Gone2ratshat]

My rule for abroad , especially in dodgier countries was

Keep your head down
Eat humble pie
Copies of all documents somewhere safe
Dont be a dick
At the end of the day, remember you go home, they are stuck there

Thats very much my thoughts when visiting Wales and Scotland.

 

[Boumer]

I thought Iranians used the term Persian now as it sounds more exotic and less threatening?

Fair point!

I think it is properly Persian, as that is the ethno-linguistic group. That said, wrong side of the Sunni side for me.

Splitters!

 

[Boumer]

Thats very much my thoughts when visiting Wales and Scotland.

Cymdeithas yr Iaith has your number mate; IRGC got nothing on Dai Soleimani.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

IRGC got nothing on Dai Soleimani.

Not much to go on.

 

[Boumer]

Not much to go on.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Indeed, what I cannot fathom in these types of cases is, that people travel to these places of their own freely made choices, and while knowing how such countries are run. That they then choose too still go, is rank stupidity on their part.

Of course when it all goes 'pear shaped', they think that being a 'British Passport holder while retaining dual citizenship will save them. In 'Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe' case she continued to hold Iranian citizenship it could be said that Iran only allows dual passport holder to travel on their Iran passport, should be considered a HUGE red flag before going.


I have never thought that having dual citizenship is a good idea. Simply put you cannot be loyal too two masters.

​

Dual citizenship is a complex issue because countries have different citizenship definitions.

NZR was born in Tehran to an Iranian father and is therefore automatically an Iranian citizen. The only way she could renounce that citizenship is to apply to the ruling council to have it rescinded, a process which is theoretically available but in practice rarely happens because applications get thrown out.

The next issue; Iran doesn’t recognise dual nationality at all. As far as they are concerned she is an Iranian and nothing else where ever she is in the world.

Other countries do it differently. The UK recognises dual citizenship and also has an easy process to renounce its citizenship. The Netherlands does not allow dual citizenship; any Dutch citizen taking up another citizenship automatically looses their Dutch nationality. There are 17 countries that do not allow renouncement of citizenship at all. Argentina is one of those 17, but it does recognise dual nationality. An Argentinian dual national is only Argentinian when in Argentina.

There are many reasons why people become dual citizens; I took Australian citizenship in order to have a vote. Australia is quite happy to tax it’s permanent residents without representation. It’s quite clear to me that I have no rights as a British citizen when I’m in Australia and vice versa. Anywhere else in the world is more complex and can depend on the passport you used on entry.

Loyalty is very much a moving piece; just look at how many third or forth generation British citizens of Indian descent support the Indian cricket team.

 

[halo_jones]

Dual citizenship is a complex issue because countries have different citizenship definitions.

Indeed it is, as I said my personal opinion, I don't think dual nationalities is a good thing. As to 'NZR' she clearly knew the rules and thus the risks. The UK Government did as much as it could, including financially to get her out of Iran.

She does not seem particularly grateful, still 'political' activists just cant help themselves.

 

[Lardbeast]

I had a colleague who had to go there regularly for business. He explained that in a country like that you can be thrown into a pit and you will never get out until somebody in power decides to let you out. There is no law. He was realistic, didn't do anything stupid or clever and only went there when the powerful people wanted to talk to him in person.

Mind you, I had another colleague who went to Nigeria fairly regularly and used to take his own blood plasma just in case. In the Russia of the late 1980s and early 1990s when the oligarchs were just getting going there were gun battles over who owned aluminium smelters and oil refineries. There are a lot grim places in the world.

Yup. I carried a suture kit with xylocaine and the other bits and bobs in my luggage whenever working in these parts. That all went down the shitter when Air France chucked my luggage away on one trip.

I hope whoever got the bag at auction enjoyed the 15kg of well rotted boerewors in there.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Indeed it is, as I said my personal opinion, I don't think dual nationalities is a good thing. As to 'NZR' she clearly knew the rules and thus the risks. The UK Government did as much as it could, including financially to get her out of Iran.

She does not seem particularly grateful, still 'political' activists just cant help themselves.

Thing is, people often don’t have a choice about dual nationality.

 

[Albertous]

Thing is, people often don’t have a choice about dual nationality.

My stepmother lost her Swiss nationality in the early 70s when she married my English father even though they lived in Switzerland.

The Swiss changed the rules and reinstated her nationality a few years before my brother was legible to do his national service much to his annoyance. Oh how we laughed when he was sent to a German speaking regiment across the country from Geneva as that was where stepmother was from so hence where he qualified.

 

[bobthebuilder]

My stepmother lost her Swiss nationality in the early 70s when she married my English father even though they lived in Switzerland.

The Swiss changed the rules and reinstated her nationality a few years before my brother was legible to do his national service much to his annoyance. Oh how we laughed when he was sent to a German speaking regiment across the country from Geneva as that was where stepmother was from so hence where he qualified.

In the early 80s, I shared a house at university who’s parents taught Russian at Durham and Newcastle universities. His mother was Russian and he had Soviet citizenship by descent.

He was the only person I’ve ever met who actually went to Russia in the Soviet Union days;! They went there most years.

He stopped going after our first year as the he was liable for conscription…..

 

[javaguzzisti]

He stopped going after our first year as the he was liable for conscription…..

Tony Brancato is dual Italian British.
about 40 years ago he went back to Italy to visit relatives and next day 2 Gendarmeri knocked at the door asking why he hadn't reported for conscription.
Because I live in England .
Ah, no problem except you cannot come back here again till you are 38.
So he did his time in an Alpine regt and loved it.

 

[Alec_Lomas]

Our country is not our master.

You are correct that normally dual nationals cannot be represented by their other country. This case is different because she was kidnapped by the criminal gang in Iran because of her connections to the UK. I would expect the British government to act if the spouse of a British citizen was treated in the same way or indeed if the employee was treated like that because of their connection to the UK.

I recall the case of Brian Keenan a NI born citizen who was retrieved from a four-and-a-half-year incarceration in the Bekka Valley ahead of John McCarthy, Terry Waite and co.

As an NI citizen he also automatically qualified for an Irish passport, a matter which was extensively promoted and heavily imposed upon to negotiate his release. It proved successful.

In all, at the time the stats were - 25 Americans, 16 French, 12 British, 7 Swiss, 7 West Germans and 1 Irish (Brian Keenan)

 

[DAS]

Indeed it is, as I said my personal opinion, I don't think dual nationalities is a good thing. As to 'NZR' she clearly knew the rules and thus the risks. The UK Government did as much as it could, including financially to get her out of Iran.

She does not seem particularly grateful, still 'political' activists just cant help themselves.

I seem to remember Boris saying the wrong thing in a speech which added greatly to her woes - something along the lines of she was only in Iran teaching journalism. No surprise she wasn't happy.

Strictly speaking I have 3 nationalities, as per my signature, although I only now bother with the 1 passport.

 

[javaguzzisti]

I seem to remember Boris saying the wrong thing in a speech which added greatly to her woes - something along the lines of she was only in Iran teaching journalism. No surprise she wasn't happy.

It didn't add to her woes.
She created them by going to an evil regime after calling an evil regime.
Stupid.

 

[Andy71]

If she was on holiday then silly cow was on her own. FCO advice was not to travel to Iran. Why the fcuk should the British taxpayer fund the release of a daft bint that thought she'd be ok going to a country where she was advised not to go and then got herself arrested for spying?

It wasn't in 2016 when she went

 

[javaguzzisti]

It wasn't in 2016 when she went

See my post above.

 

[Fat_Cav]

Loyalty is very much a moving piece; just look at how many third or forth generation British citizens of Indian descent support the Indian cricket team.

Or Amir Khan's family & friends waving Pakistani flags during his first Olympics in 2004

 

[BuggerAll]

It didn't add to her woes.
She created them by going to an evil regime after calling an evil regime.
Stupid.

Did it affect the woes of the other people they had kidnapped? Apart from grrrr Boris what difference did it make?