Navy "..too small.." says Defence Minister

Mr._Average

Old-Salt
Tobias Ellwood appears to have woken up and smelled some coffee. Obviously, I'll believe it when I see it but, nonetheless...

"If we want to continue playing a role on the international stage – bearing in mind that threats are changing, all happening just beneath the threshold of all-out war – then we must invest more in our defence, including our Royal Navy.
Our Royal Navy is too small to manage our interests across the globe, if that’s our future intentions, and that’s something the next prime minister will need to recognise.”

UK defence minister rebuffs criticism over tanker seized in Gulf
 
No shit...

You mean 2 Carriers, 6 Destroyers, and 13 frigates with 7 SSN’s are not enough?? Of which all are not going to ready for any sort of ops.

You only have NATO commitments, this desire to play in the Pacific and, the Gulf now hotting up...
 
Ellwood is pro-Remain. Thus, likely on his way out in terms of being a minister. He can therefore speak his mind. However, we've been short of ships all the time he's been a minister, and for many years before, and I bet he's not been this open/critical in that time. Politics and the post '89' Peace Dividend' is killing the forces and you can't just ramp up capability / forces overnight. That being the case, we need to stay out of trouble until we can deal with it, or accept that we may be embarrassed, or much worse.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
No shit...

You mean 2 Carriers, 6 Destroyers, and 13 frigates with 7 SSN’s are not enough?? Of which all are not going to ready for any sort of ops.

You only have NATO commitments, this desire to play in the Pacific and, the Gulf now hotting up...
We haven’t really got two carriers have we? No planes one has sprung a leak and I’m not sure where the other one is.
 
We haven’t really got two carriers have we? No planes one has sprung a leak and I’m not sure where the other one is.
I am sure you could borrow assets from the USMC, If you give them beer and let them shag the female sailors... and give out enough packs of complimentary crayons the Sempers will gladly play. But your Apache’s would do well in the Gulf, provided you could get enough escorts ready.
 
I couldn’t agree more; I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the UK needs a maritime centric Defence capability and a wholesale re-apportionment of priorities, funding and personnel to that environment in my view.

Operations over recent years have increasingly demonstrated the RN is capable of deploying a UK National carrier battle group OR maintaining a limited presence overseas; it cannot do both simultaneously. That in turn is also degrading the credibility of our strategic nuclear deterrent.

Talk of coalition and NATO ‘leadership’ and listing regions and exercises where the odd one or 2 ships are is merely delusional; a single FFG is not capable of defending in the Gulf alone as this humiliation again demonstrates.

Regards,
MM
 
We haven’t really got two carriers have we? No planes one has sprung a leak and I’m not sure where the other one is.
I know where the other one is. I see it every time I cross the Queensferry Crossing and look over to the yard where they are still building it.
 
Ellwood is pro-Remain. Thus, likely on his way out in terms of being a minister. He can therefore speak his mind. However, we've been short of ships all the time he's been a minister, and for many years before, and I bet he's not been this open/critical in that time. Politics and the post '89' Peace Dividend' is killing the forces and you can't just ramp up capability / forces overnight. That being the case, we need to stay out of trouble until we can deal with it, or accept that we may be embarrassed, or much worse.
Gove's back in after stabbing BoJo in the back. Ellwood and other ex-mil have spoken out about UK armed forces cuts previously. You're doing him a disservice here.

Defence minister 'threatens to quit' over cuts that would leave Army with fewer than 70,000 soldiers
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
I know where the other one is. I see it every time I cross the Queensferry Crossing and look over to the yard where they are still building it.
Well done that was classified “TOP SECRET”. Now the whole bloody world knows!:applaud:;)
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
I am sure you could borrow assets from the USMC, If you give them beer and let them shag the female sailors... and give out enough packs of complimentary crayons the Sempers will gladly play. But your Apache’s would do well in the Gulf, provided you could get enough escorts ready.
I think the only “escorts” we have plenty of is completely different to the escorts of the maritime persuasion.
 

Yokel

LE
We haven’t really got two carriers have we? No planes one has sprung a leak and I’m not sure where the other one is.
Do you think of looking to see if any jets have ever landed on deck, if the UK has ordered any such jets and if they have arrived in the UK, if there were any plans for the carriers to carry anything like helicopters for something like task group ASW or LitM, or news stories about the carriers themselves?

@jrwlynch punch him.

No shit...

You mean 2 Carriers, 6 Destroyers, and 13 frigates with 7 SSN’s are not enough?? Of which all are not going to ready for any sort of ops.

You only have NATO commitments, this desire to play in the Pacific and, the Gulf now hotting up...
Please put this on a postcard to David Cameron, F*** knows where, Well monied obscurity....

First two things for the well meaning politician:

1. More people. Both the RN and RAF expected a manpower uplift of 1500 or so people in 2015. Yes, manpower is the major issue. All our capabilities are down to people.


2. More ASW Merlins - or at least airframes to make up for the ones used for Crowsnest.
 
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Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
Take solace in the fact we are buying the uber expensive but reduced capability version the F35, so we'll be fine...
 

Offa

War Hero
EU Navy? RN stopped Iranian tanker under EU embargo on oil to Syria. Had RN not done so, which EU navy would have upheld EU embargo? French? Italian? Greek? Unlikely. Post-Brexit EU will do what?
 
Does the USMC lend out cajones?
Says the civvy who does the photocopying and doesn’t even have the moral courage to stick with a single log-on name when he changes his views on matters.

Regards,
MM
 

Yokel

LE
Take solace in the fact we are buying the uber expensive but reduced capability version the F35, so we'll be fine...
Would that be the version that modelling shows allows the QEC to deliver the highest sortie rate, does not need lots of extra personnel we do not have for things like catapults or arresting engines, and not having the training burden associated with keeping the drivers qualified for conventional carrier landings fits in with the way the UK will use it, in a Joint RN/RAF force?

Oh! By the way, I thought the F-35C (CTOL) was more expensive due to the modifications such as strengthened fuselage and landing gear, larger wings, and so on.
 

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