Navy releases pirates caught red-handed

#1
SOMALIAN pirates who are terrorising yachts and cargo ships in the Indian Ocean are being routinely allowed to go free by international naval forces despite being captured with their weapons and even holding hostages.

[snip]

The warships involved in anti-piracy operations will normally have a lawyer on board the ship and any operation will involve a legal consultation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6936318.ece
 
#2
They've got nowhere to send them for trial, and those lawyers tend to stop the bad guys accidently falling overboard after falling on some bullets.
 
#3
Turk said:
They've got nowhere to send them for trial, and those lawyers tend to stop the bad guys accidently falling overboard after falling on some bullets.
You say that like it's GOOD thing. :evil:
 
#4
Hmmmm.....lemme think..... The pirates took the lawyer hostage, but they all fell overboard in rough seas, a tragic accident that has happened many times in recent months.
 
#5
“The seven suspected pirates were not captured in the act of piracy so they were released,

So its ok for them to "kill" if their demands are not met :x

Even though were fully aware that the Hostages are worth more alive than dead to these Pirates :evil:
 
#6
Fecking human rights act in action again. I read that Royal Navy COs are not even allowed to bring pirates aboard their ships for fear that they'll claim asylum and the Mail will send a photographer with a Jolly Roger round to their grand-a-week, taxpayer funded council flat in Westminster. They can't send them back to Somalia for prosecution either as pirates face the death penalty there.

I fear things are about to take a turn for the worse in the world's warmer oceans. It's not going to take long for the captors of those two yachties to realise that they aint going to get the $7 million ransom that they're demanding. Flogging them to the local al-Qaeda rep to be fitted for orange boiler suits and their own internet reality TV show would be the most profitable outcome for the pirates.

The Gulf of Aden isn't the only maritime choke point frequented by the world's shipping. I'm sure that legions of wannabe pirates around the Strait of Malacca, Panama Canal and Singapore are brushing up on their navigation skills and dreaming of vast fortunes as I write this. No doubt more than a few aspiring Essex gangstas are eyeing the Dover Strait too, while trying to buy a pedallo and AK-47 on eBay.
 
#7
Was a time when we used to sumirarrily hang pirate
 
#8
Human rights is not the problem here - what people need to get into their heads is that this is a constabulary operation and we are under the same constraints as a local police force and CPS. The critical factor is whether we have evidence against suspected individuals of piracy on the high seas that satisfies the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) in a Kenyan court. Unless you catch them in the act, it is difficult to prove (a) that any particular individual was involved, (b) that the act was committed in the high seas and not e.g. in Somali territorial waters. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult given the resource and geographic constraints.
 
#9
Did they find that the pirates had also nicked their ipod's when they left as well?
 
#11
thehuntforredoctober said:
Human rights is not the problem here - what people need to get into their heads is that this is a constabulary operation and we are under the same constraints as a local police force and CPS. The critical factor is whether we have evidence against suspected individuals of piracy on the high seas that satisfies the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) in a Kenyan court. Unless you catch them in the act, it is difficult to prove (a) that any particular individual was involved, (b) that the act was committed in the high seas and not e.g. in Somali territorial waters. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult given the resource and geographic constraints.
Then it is a waste of time and resources. The navy should deal with piracy by blowing them out of the water and/or hanging them. What the navy are doing atm is encouraging piracy.
 
#13
The concept of speaking/ dealing with people in a language/manner that they can understand seems to have been lost. Lawyers on warships? I always thought that the Captain was the Law. We didn't build an empire like this. Yes, I admit am a dinosaur. But it's better than being an ostrich or perhaps, a submarine.
 
#14
thehuntforredoctober said:
Human rights is not the problem here - what people need to get into their heads is that this is a constabulary operation and we are under the same constraints as a local police force and CPS. The critical factor is whether we have evidence against suspected individuals of piracy on the high seas that satisfies the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) in a Kenyan court. Unless you catch them in the act, it is difficult to prove (a) that any particular individual was involved, (b) that the act was committed in the high seas and not e.g. in Somali territorial waters. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult given the resource and geographic constraints.
And yet the Americans, Dutch, French, Kenyans, Thais and Germans have prosecuted numerous pirates while we have prosecuted none.

The fact is, as soon as they set foot in the UK they will have access to a state funded human rights lawyer and they will be here for good. Even if they are convicted of piracy all they'll get is a short sentence followed by a lifetime on benefits because, as the law stands, we can't deport people back to Somalia.
 
#15
StickyEnd said:
thehuntforredoctober said:
Human rights is not the problem here - what people need to get into their heads is that this is a constabulary operation and we are under the same constraints as a local police force and CPS. The critical factor is whether we have evidence against suspected individuals of piracy on the high seas that satisfies the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) in a Kenyan court. Unless you catch them in the act, it is difficult to prove (a) that any particular individual was involved, (b) that the act was committed in the high seas and not e.g. in Somali territorial waters. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult given the resource and geographic constraints.
Then it is a waste of time and resources. The navy should deal with piracy by blowing them out of the water and/or hanging them. What the navy are doing atm is encouraging piracy.
Seconded. :evil:
 
#16
Ancient_Mariner said:
thehuntforredoctober said:
Human rights is not the problem here - what people need to get into their heads is that this is a constabulary operation and we are under the same constraints as a local police force and CPS. The critical factor is whether we have evidence against suspected individuals of piracy on the high seas that satisfies the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) in a Kenyan court. Unless you catch them in the act, it is difficult to prove (a) that any particular individual was involved, (b) that the act was committed in the high seas and not e.g. in Somali territorial waters. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult given the resource and geographic constraints.
And yet the Americans, Dutch, French, Kenyans, Thais and Germans have prosecuted numerous pirates while we have prosecuted none.

The fact is, as soon as they set foot in the UK they will have access to a state funded human rights lawyer and they will be here for good. Even if they are convicted of piracy all they'll get is a short sentence followed by a lifetime on benefits because, as the law stands, we can't deport people back to Somalia.
GREAT! Britain. Is this really the same country that once governed countries all across the globe and had a legal system which was the envy of the world?
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Tom9748 said:
Ancient_Mariner said:
thehuntforredoctober said:
Human rights is not the problem here - what people need to get into their heads is that this is a constabulary operation and we are under the same constraints as a local police force and CPS. The critical factor is whether we have evidence against suspected individuals of piracy on the high seas that satisfies the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) in a Kenyan court. Unless you catch them in the act, it is difficult to prove (a) that any particular individual was involved, (b) that the act was committed in the high seas and not e.g. in Somali territorial waters. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult given the resource and geographic constraints.
And yet the Americans, Dutch, French, Kenyans, Thais and Germans have prosecuted numerous pirates while we have prosecuted none.

The fact is, as soon as they set foot in the UK they will have access to a state funded human rights lawyer and they will be here for good. Even if they are convicted of piracy all they'll get is a short sentence followed by a lifetime on benefits because, as the law stands, we can't deport people back to Somalia.
GREAT! Britain. Is this really the same country that once governed countries all across the globe and had a legal system which was the envy of the world?
No, this nation is a ship that has been skuttled by the enemy within, not through fear of the enemy without, but because they don't like sailing.
 
#18
Yet another inaccurate and ill-informed example of 'Hate Mail' directed at our beleaguered naval forces in theatre:

Royal Marines could have rescued pirate hostages, but the order to attack never came

Mail online 29 Nov 09 said:
An investigation by The Mail on Sunday demolishes accounts by the Ministry of Defence and the head of the Navy which suggest that a naval vessel at the scene had no rescue force available. In fact, far from being a toothless bystander, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Wave Knight was within seconds of unleashing a crack team of 20 lethally armed Royal Marines...
The booties concerned were probably quite capable of performing opposed boardings and atomising a pirate boat and its occupants if necessary but they were not SF trained in hostage rescue. When will people realise that such delicate operations as hostage rescue are not simply a matter of having superior fire-power? If that were true, there would never be any problem. In case people think our counter-piracy frustrations are exclusive to the RN, read:

Navy releases Somali pirates caught red-handed
The Times online 29 Nov 09 said:
Somalian pirates who are terrorising yachts and cargo ships in the Indian Ocean are being routinely allowed to go free by international naval forces despite being captured with their weapons and even holding hostages...

More than 340 suspected Somalian pirates have been captured in anti-piracy operations over the past year and subsequently released on the advice of lawyers. Some have been disembarked on African beaches because of concerns over the seaworthiness of their vessels...

The warships involved in anti-piracy operations will normally have a lawyer on board the ship and any operation will involve a legal consultation. The factors considered for a possible prosecution include cost, the quality of the evidence and the operational impact. United States Central Command has revealed that in anti-piracy operations off Somalia between August 2008 and September this year, 343 pirates have been disarmed and released, compared with 212 who have been sent for prosecution. None to date has been sent for prosecution in the UK...

The Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean have become some of the most dangerous waters in the world because of the Somalian pirates. Three naval operations are tasked with combating piracy: a Nato force; a combined taskforce involving the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Pakistan and other countries; and Navfor, an EU force. A Nato spokesman said this weekend that it did not have any mandate to arrest and detain pirates, only to disrupt their activities. It was a decision for the commander of each vessel on what do with captives. The combined taskforce has a similar policy.

EU Navfor is tasked with prosecuting pirates and Kenya has agreed to accept cases. Commander John Harbour, of EU Navfor, said 75 suspected pirates were awaiting trial, but suspects were released if there was insufficient evidence. Kenya is struggling to cope with the numbers of pirates and a transfer agreement has also been made with the Seychelles, raising the prospect of them serving out their sentences in an Indian Ocean paradise.

The Ministry of Defence said: “Counter-piracy operations conducted by international maritime forces, including from the UK, have deterred, disrupted and suppressed a large amount of pirate activity. “In general, a high evidential threshold needs to be met before transferring of suspected pirates to a regional state, such as Kenya. Where insufficient evidence exists, the Royal Navy will seize and dispose of vessels and other equipment, such as ladders and weapons.”
 
#19
So the consensus so far is that the Royal Navy should deal with the pirates by behaving like, er, pirates.

Shakes head and walks off to pub.
 

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