Naval Promotion freeze

#1
Another nail in the coffin of out Armed Forces, watch the junior officers who will be affected by this flee the Navy because they cannot make 2 & 1/2 !

How about sacking a bunch or Captains and Admirals instead bearing in mind that this rebalancing is supposed to be focussed on the front line - last time I looked Commanders were Captains of most capital ships less Carriers which have Captains as their Captain or Commodores if they are the Flag Ship of a Task Force since we no longer have enough ships to make up a Carrier Group.

I am not one to see assets stripped form the Army to keep the Navy afloat but how measely does our defence capability have to get before the Politicians realise we are beyond the point of no return and that they have broken the backbone of this nation?

Naval Promotion Freeze to Lt Cdr
 
#2
It seems a little daft attempting to cull the multitudes of upper ranks by this means, in fact it sounds just like the solution that the upper ranks would produce under political pressure (ie politicos who have read Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs, and are rightly horrified to discover that Admirals are in charge of car parks etc.)

Prehaps a 'new' Navy is planned which will only be opened to those denied promotion now - it will get all the new ship(s) while the 'old' Navy keeps the cocktail parties......
 
#3
Defence by "short term accountancy"

Perhaps we need to develop our own "5 Tests" ??
 
#5
Sven said:
I think one ofthe first tests has to be

Can we enter into a full scale conflict in a matter of weeks
I think we all know that would be impossible. Sad to see a fine arm of the british forces go down the drain. Beancounters at work again :?


fastmedic
 
#6
Sven said:
Can we enter into a full scale conflict in a matter of weeks

mmmmm well lets put a couple of focus groups on that plus get a overveiw from one of the big consultancy firms...and maybe a phone around some of our media freinds and see how a full scale conflict would play on the front pages.
 
#7
Sven said:
I think one ofthe first tests has to be

Can we enter into a full scale conflict in a matter of weeks
Surely the intelligence Indicators and Warnings process will give us months of notice to regenerate any Naval capability in time. I+W Current Intelligence is based on a foundation of Basic Intelligence.

Where does that intelligence come from?

well lets see, GCHQ, MI6, MI5, the RAF, the Army and............ :frustrated: :oops:

( we never got any useful intelligence from HMS Endurance either, did we :?: |Not even in 1982 ?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: )
 
#8
Even better, lets privatise the forces completely! Seems to be the governments method of choice for schools, prisons and now hospitals. :x

Strikes would be commonplace, shoddy service and most of all it would cost even more.........Yes, it sounds better all the time.

I want an award Bliar for this excellent idea.......there is a few quid in it for you as well :lol:


fastmedic
 
#9
It is laughable. Just settled in for a stint of Soccer AM and in the first advert break, there was a commercial for RN Careers. I almost choked on my Cinnamon Bagel. This method means that the upper echelons are going to rest on their laurels and the young talent will become disillusioned and leave, reducing our quality even more. POLtCdrs doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
 
#10
The only problem is that Britain has not had several months notice for any conflict since WW2. Enemies tend to realise that surprise is a strong weapon, so funnily enough Saddam did not publish warnings in the 'Times' that he was going to invade Iran or Kuwait. Neither did the North Koreans, and drug smugglers and pirates are too uncouth to even place a small notice in the 'Daily Mail'.

The ships placed in mothballs will take at least 18 months to bring back into service. Crews will have to be retrained and the Navy will struggle to find enough experienced and 'in date' officers ready for an immediate operational deployment.

Some wnakers on this site, showing to all that they have an IQ smaller than their shoe size have claimed we do not need a navy, just a coastal defence force. Such spastics are ignorant of the Navy's recent roles in the Lebanon, Sierra Leone, the Gulf, the Carribean. Not to forget the Falklands (which are not the only islands being looked at greedily by johnny foriegner). The Navy gives us a platform from which to reach over 500km inland for warfighting, disaster relief, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping, sanctions implimentation, anti-narcotic patrols, etc, etc, etc.

What the MoD is doing is getting close to treason.
 
#11
Dread said:
The only problem is that Britain has not had several months notice for any conflict since WW2. Enemies tend to realise that surprise is a strong weapon, so funnily enough Saddam did not publish warnings in the 'Times' that he was going to invade Iran or Kuwait. Neither did the North Koreans, and drug smugglers and pirates are too uncouth to even place a small notice in the 'Daily Mail'.

The ships placed in mothballs will take at least 18 months to bring back into service. Crews will have to be retrained and the Navy will struggle to find enough experienced and 'in date' officers ready for an immediate operational deployment.

Some wnakers on this site, showing to all that they have an IQ smaller than their shoe size have claimed we do not need a navy, just a coastal defence force. Such spastics are ignorant of the Navy's recent roles in the Lebanon, Sierra Leone, the Gulf, the Carribean. Not to forget the Falklands (which are not the only islands being looked at greedily by johnny foriegner). The Navy gives us a platform from which to reach over 500km inland for warfighting, disaster relief, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping, sanctions implimentation, anti-narcotic patrols, etc, etc, etc.

What the MoD is doing is getting close to treason.
Hear, hear!

If we simple individuals on this site are able to see the total cluster about to be unleashed upon the RN, why in the name of all thats holy can the political head sheds not fight for the side.
Maybe they gave their manhood to Bliar upon promotion to the cabinet 8)

fastmedic
 
#12
If promotion to Lt Cdr is blocked. Doesn't this mean that the whole system grinds to a halt? Until eventually we don't even need new ensigns?

I am maybe a bit thick, but surely this would happen.

Or they all leave.
 
#13
Chocolate frog is spot on, my reading of this is that the MoD cannot afford to pay redundancy money and has found a cheap way to prise people out.
 
#14
Is it not also true we have more Admirals than Ships?
 
#15
Cheap? Except when they sue the MoD for constructive dismissal and each affected officer is awarded 300,000 quid plus pension rights!


Or does that come from a different budget?
 
#16
chocolate_frog said:
Is it not also true we have more Admirals than Ships?
True. The Army also has more officers of General rank than it has brigades. It is a cheap soundbite that does not reflect the balance required between the 3 Services at Joint HQs, MoD, appointments to NATO and the USA, etc.
 
#17
Now we are talking Dread, maybe BAFF should take legal advice on this point. You have just cheered me up no end. Another ARRSE letter writing campaign? Hackle, constructive dismissal? What is your view on this?
 
#18
What the Telegraph neglect to mention in the article is the fact that this 'Freeze' also extends to people trying to get their Warrants and also the likelihood of being offered 2OE is minimal for all branches.
 
M

Mr_Logic

Guest
#19
One key aspect of this situation is to perhaps question the end-state the government and Treasury is trying to achieve by these measures. I am hoping that our leaders are taking a long-term political and strategc view of what is best for the country's long term political, diplomatic, economic and security interests.

I am hoping that our political and military leaders have done done their Mission Analysis and understand the situation we may be in in ten years time. Will NATO still exist? Will climate change be causing mass starvation and population shifts? Will nations be fighting nations for energy or food resources? The finest human minds would have struggled to predict 1995 from 1985. Similarly, the world of 2005 is immeasurably different to what we knew in 1995. In the world of 2017 we may need a strong RN.

I would like to think that our leaders think that another cost-cutting measure will achieve long term security for us. However, being the cynic I am, I suspect that our politicians (and the journalists, who weild too much power) are thinking about tomorrows headlines and Bliar's succession, rather than what is good for the nation's long-term survival. The irony is that we are a hugely wealthy nation and the money is there to achieve it all. Our politicians are too spineless to do the right thing for the nation's long-tern interests.
 
#20
Mr Logic, spot on.

This is no ordinary endstate, considered by a Mission Analysis of strategic national requirments, this is a Luxury Neu Labour Express endstate designed to achieve rapid effect.

However there my be multiple effects that the authors of this proposal had nor considered in their analysis

How long before a serving Admiral speaks out on this?

Dread Exactly right, naval capability essential for any strategic, nay even tactical force projection. Band was slightly uncoplimentary about HMS Oceon, in RUSI a while back. I had to remind him Op BARRAS could not have gone down without Naval reach and that platform in particular.

Perhaps the other services need to step in to fight for the Navy they need to project force??
 

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