NATO disunity on display.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Kromeriz, May 26, 2017.

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  1. Your argument certainly is.
  2. That would prove WTO-rules-only is a better option how, exactly?
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  3. The issue is principally that old NATO (Germany, France and Italy, inter alia), are not spending 2% GDP). My experience is that the FWP countries are much more lean-forward about the very real threat that Russia poses.
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  4. In case you might not have noticed, there's a great big world outside the EU, with rather more than 140 nations to trade with.
    Give your head a wobble.
    This is supposed to be about NATO in any case.
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  5. it's more an admission that she's in a bind
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  6. All of whom will require convincing that a trade agreement with the UK is in their interests. While we're doing that, who's paying the bills?

    It's actually about the US President criticising those who don't pay their 2% of GDP. The state of the UK economy has some bearing on that, doesn't it?
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  7. A couple of easily researched open source documents show that even pre-Mutti their GDP expenditure was being reduced by central government from the 1970 to 74 average of 3.5% p.a.
    Down to 3.2% in 1985 and 2.9% in 1989 at the height of us all waiting for 3SA to roll west.
    From the country on the real front line apparently defending itself.
    Or not?
    By comparison the UK spunked 5.2% in 1985 and 4.2% in 1989 towards the same end.

    Table 2 page 4 refers.

    And even this from 8 years ago. It isn't like they have had no notice of the fact is it?

    NATO's Welfare Bums

    I can hardly wait for the soft power option to be used in 2022 when there is no more nuclear power generating and Vladimir turns off the gas .

    Exit now, pay later: Germany's rushed farewell to nuclear power

    Does Mutti really want the job again?
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  8. Saw this and it reminded me of a news report I caught the tail end of last week on Euro News, during which Civilian Analysts from various countries were discussing the ramifications of the NATO Summit. The French Military analyst argued that France would struggle to spend its 2% as its Military doctrine had evolved to the point where it didn't need big ticket items. Instead, preferring fast moving and lightly burdened troops, in fast light armour. It was inferred that it was cheap, but effective: Weren't the Americans amazed at how far the French penetrated into Iraq during Gulf War 1, when they popped up 90 miles from Baghdad before anyone else noticed? He then went on to say the strategy had been further refined in France's Police actions in Africa.
    It was then pointed out by a Belgian counterpart (arguing for keeping the USA on side), that the strategy worked fine for France in attack, against a third world enemy, obligingly static and totally blind to French movements. Could he speculate how effective this amazing strategy would be when in defending France's borders?
    He smiled and offered a Gallic shrug.Unfortunately, I can't find the clip on the Euro News website.

    Against Macrons bizarre hand shake posturing with Trump and Merkels mutterings about Europe being on its own, we have to take into account that a lot of this could be for domestic consumption. Macron is facing a domestic election, widely regarded by the far left and French Unions as being too close to the "Anglo Saxon way," whilst at the same time he's pushing Merkel for European Union Reform. Maybe Merkel is using the NATO situation to draw France close and dampen Macrons vigour for reform?
    Macron meets Merkel to push EU reform idea
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
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  9. Unfortunately yes she does. Even worse there is no credible replacement, and Schulz doesn't count.
    Germanys shutting down of all nuclear plants is a bit complicated, first the then SPD govt (Schröder) wanted out, then Merkel got voted in and decided to exit the nuclear exit. Then Fukushima happened, what followed can only be described as a panic stricken reaction. And no plan B.
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  10. I do find that Germany also whining about the US not signing up for Paris after they seriously cranked up the use of coal when the fear of a tsunami knocking out a plant in Baden-Württemberg became too much rather amusing
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  11. One to bear in mind for the future then?

    OGZD:London Intl Stock Quote - Gazprom PJSC

    NATO will always be NATO, but without the big stick being proffered and waved by 2 x certain members it is reduced to what it always has been since 1989, a place for talking heads.
    Force projection without us and Uncle Donald?
    Don't exist.
    Just look at the A400M thread on here to see how it will all pan out.
    Remind us all again who is providing the airbridge for certain French Saharan adventures?
    And all the MoD in the Fatherland can seem to be worried about presently is memorabilia from long ago
    Not obsolete kit, lack of recruitment or morale then?

    German army calls for searches of all barracks after Nazi memorabilia found

    Good luck with all this standing up and the EU fighting for its own destiny.
    Someone gave up on their country long ago Mutti.
  12. If people can't grasp why Germany simply won't fall into the category of being that useful, they were told that the allies would never tolerate a militaristic Germany. As long as people keep reminding Germany of it's past, the less they'll be interested to comply. For them, as I read it, the two alternatives are NATO or the EU. Doing it for themselves has been bred out.
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  13. Not as such, no, as the UK wasn't the target of Trump's ire.
  14. WE seem to be agreeing to agree because when asked I specifically mentioned Germany.

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