National Service

#1
Inspired by Knife Crime thread

Chavs - They're a pain in the arse and taking this country to the cleaners.

The quick fix scheme that alot of people would like to see is National Service being brought back in.

I personally believe that forcing te dredge of society into military service would destroy the combat effectiveness of our Armed Forces and ruin years of work put into effective training for Proffessional Volunteer Service Personell.

So how would you run The National Service? My service would be responsible mainly for Cleaning up Britain. Reparing roads and buildings. Re planting the countryside. Providing cheap labour to the public services and providing extra man power where needed most.

I'll start the ball rolling with.

1. Not entitled to benefits/free housing unless two years national service has been completed.

2. The National service staff would be cheap labour and given the minimum wage.

3. They would be "Fully trained" in their relevant trade or roll with plenty of oppurtunity for work afterwards due to internationally recognised qualifications.

4. There would be minimal excuses for not getting involved (Serious Health issues etc)

5. Those who volunteered to join the armed forces/emergency services instead would be rewarded with the full pay and benefits these offer

I can already hear people saying where is the money going to come from... Thats the brilliant part. The Benefit system and Overseas "Charity" (Which allegedly begins at home).

I could bore on but lets hear some opinions.
 
#2
but isn't it just a waste of time as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water" Ok if they dont go you take away the benefits but thenthe underlying crime rate just goes up as they support themselves in other ways.
Just either shoot the little pikeys or enforce sterilisation on the cnuts.
 
#3
ark-angel said:
but isn't it just a waste of time as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water" Ok if they dont go you take away the benefits but thenthe underlying crime rate just goes up as they support themselves in other ways.
Just either shoot the little pikeys or enforce sterilisation on the cnuts.
Naturaly its not the only answer to our problems. Combined with a more robust criminal justice system (Not just filling them in at the road side) and more responsibility being put on the individual and the parents to help themselves I think it could work.

The current system of letting people sponge thousands of pounds a year just for being born is not acceptable.

People need to earn their rights in my opinion. Call it a Starship Troopers State of "Citizenship" but it works for me.
 
#4
Anything based upon giving the offenders or those deemed in need of NS the "opportunity" to redeem themselves is based upon a false premise. The vast majority have no desire to improve or change their ways. Induction would mean little. What would you do with the guys who say "No", "Won't" or "You cannot make me". Beasting would be counter-productive, reduction of any small privileges useless as they live less interesting lives on Chavsville Estate anyway. Training and supervision would be a problem; the guy who teaches them plumbing would have no idea of enforcing discipline.
 
#5
i understand the argument but why not just remove the welfare state alltogether. You only qualify by proving a genuine disability that stops you from working and there aren't a lot of them even a quadraplegic can get a job liking envelopes and stamps ;) or by working for the previous 8 months to guarentee a maximum of 6 weeks support after that feck all. You have 6 weeks to get a job or your starving that will stop all this i ain't working in McDonalds and such like you will take anyold job and like it if not look for another but the state will not support you.
 
#6
What is the point of ruining the Army by filling it up with lots of chavs? I don't think National Service is the answer. We could do with building more prisons and having a judiciary that was able to give appropriate sentences.
 
B

BambiBasher

Guest
#7
The scrotes would just take to robbery and home invasion. 'Work or starve' only worked when thieves ended on the gibbet. I would say, give 'em some sort of nissen-hut type of accommodation, three meals a day (not very nice meals), and enough pocket money to drink themselves into a stupor. It would be cheaper and more effective than maintaining a criminal justice system.

The ones who wanted to work could sign up to OJT and rejoin civilisation any time they liked.
 
#8
why not just fence the estates off and allow folks to stand on large towers and shoot them, then a patrol could go in retreive the body beahead it and then it could be mounted on your wall above the fire, maybe a lovely set of Rockport umbrella stands for the hallway and a nike nylon rug for the living room or study ;)
 
#9
What about some sort of Civil Defence corps?

Unemployed people on benefits automatically a part of this body, spending their time bein supervised doing something useful (road improvements, graffiti removal, litter sweeps, community service) in order to earn their benefits. The shit nature of their work would eb an incentive for these people to better themselves and find gainful employment, at which point they leave the Corps and no longer receive benefits...
 
#10
Thankfully, it won't happen as the armed forces completely lack the infrastructure to enable it.

When we had conscription in the fifties there were 690,000 regular service personnel to train and lead them. National service is not remotely possible with the armed forces at their present strength of 180,000.

It might work if there were enough people to train them, and that means shed loads of high quality JNCOs and SNCOs. We will also need plenty of accommodation to house them, more real estate on which to train them, plus their clothing and equipment, and vehicles to transport them.

To my mind this will take at least six years of unrestricted spending to put in place. The NCOs will have to come from our existing manpower, which means we will have to boost retention massively, and that means paying our NCOs a decent wage.

Also, who are the intended concriptees? If it is to be all our youth (or just those elect not to go on to higher education) what will we do with all the women? Infantry is not an option for them so are the corps going to become predominantly female???
 
#11
1). HM Government to form a 'paramilitary' Civil Defence organisation including a comprehensive Basic Training course, based on that provided for the conscripts of the 1950, without the overtly 'military' aspect (no weapons training, field-craft etc) but with an addition of First Aid, Hygene, and, where required remedial education in literacy and basic maths.

2). HM Govt. to introduce Universal National Service for all persons on age 18 (or later following the late entry rules introduced for National Service, when NS last introduced). Those registered as 'Disabled" will also be required to serve in a restricted capacity (within fields allowing for their disabilities).

3). All conscripts to be paid at the rate of full unemployment benefit (all found)

4). Service shall be for two years, extendable by up to six months in the case of emergency, and will be enforced by law.

5). Those conscripts wishing to volunteer for HM Forces or for certain civilian services* will, on passing the required physical, mental and intellegence tests will be allowed to contract for service at full service pay and priveledges as regular members - those failing their service training, dismissed from service for other than medical reasons within the first three years of service will be returned to complete a full term of National Service (to stop the Forces being used as a 'cop out').
Those already serving in the above at the time of conscription shall be exept from service unless they leave service with the time scale of their conscription (see above).

6). Those conscripts bringing professional skills into the organisation (Medicine & Nursing, Dentisry, Civil Engineering, Languages, Catering etc.) will be empolyed within their respective fields (sorry, no jobs for 'Media Studies' grads, they go back into the labour pool).

7). All conscripts to be trained in First Aid and elementary Field Medicine and in record keeping.

6). The CD conscipts to be employed in a wide range of work from 'Urban Renewal' (clearing up vandalised surfaces and the like), through Forestry, Hospital cleaning, Caring for the Elderly and Nursing. In addition groups will be trained in Heavy and Light Rescue and engineering, and may be employed both at home and abroad in case of Natural disasters or in 'humanitarian' wotk (Medical service or bringing clean water supplies to villages in friendly 'third world'countries
The postings to be decided by compatability with the task and with disciplinary record, attitude etc.

9). All traing shall be undertaken to a nationally recognised standard and will lead to recognised qualifications, any 'work experience' gained shall be taken as valid for further employment.

10). A good record on completion of service shall result in negation of fees for all (or a proportion) of fees for any further education undertaken within the following three years (this shall also be extended to all Servicemen).

11). Any conscript with a good dicharge and desirable qualifications may be elegable for full time re-employment as instructors at similar rates and conditions as the services.

12). All service shall be pensionable under Civil Service rules

13). A voluntary CD corps shall be raised to support the work of the conscript service, in the manner of the TA.


Just an idea.

W


* Fire Service, Police, Ambulance, Coast Guard/Rescue etc.
 
#12
walrus said:
1). HM Government to form a 'paramilitary' Civil Defence organisation including a comprehensive Basic Training course, based on that provided for the conscripts of the 1950, without the overtly 'military' aspect (no weapons training, field-craft etc) but with an addition of First Aid, Hygene, and, where required remedial education in literacy and basic maths.

2). HM Govt. to introduce Universal National Service for all persons on age 18 (or later following the late entry rules introduced for National Service, when NS last introduced). Those registered as 'Disabled" will also be required to serve in a restricted capacity (within fields allowing for their disabilities).

3). All conscripts to be paid at the rate of full unemployment benefit (all found)

4). Service shall be for two years, extendable by up to six months in the case of emergency, and will be enforced by law.

5). Those conscripts wishing to volunteer for HM Forces or for certain civilian services* will, on passing the required physical, mental and intellegence tests will be allowed to contract for service at full service pay and priveledges as regular members - those failing their service training, dismissed from service for other than medical reasons within the first three years of service will be returned to complete a full term of National Service (to stop the Forces being used as a 'cop out').
Those already serving in the above at the time of conscription shall be exept from service unless they leave service with the time scale of their conscription (see above).

6). Those conscripts bringing professional skills into the organisation (Medicine & Nursing, Dentisry, Civil Engineering, Languages, Catering etc.) will be empolyed within their respective fields (sorry, no jobs for 'Media Studies' grads, they go back into the labour pool).

7). All conscripts to be trained in First Aid and elementary Field Medicine and in record keeping.

6). The CD conscipts to be employed in a wide range of work from 'Urban Renewal' (clearing up vandalised surfaces and the like), through Forestry, Hospital cleaning, Caring for the Elderly and Nursing. In addition groups will be trained in Heavy and Light Rescue and engineering, and may be employed both at home and abroad in case of Natural disasters or in 'humanitarian' wotk (Medical service or bringing clean water supplies to villages in friendly 'third world'countries
The postings to be decided by compatability with the task and with disciplinary record, attitude etc.

9). All traing shall be undertaken to a nationally recognised standard and will lead to recognised qualifications, any 'work experience' gained shall be taken as valid for further employment.

10). A good record on completion of service shall result in negation of fees for all (or a proportion) of fees for any further education undertaken within the following three years (this shall also be extended to all Servicemen).

11). Any conscript with a good dicharge and desirable qualifications may be elegable for full time re-employment as instructors at similar rates and conditions as the services.

12). All service shall be pensionable under Civil Service rules

13). A voluntary CD corps shall be raised to support the work of the conscript service, in the manner of the TA.


Just an idea.

W


* Fire Service, Police, Ambulance, Coast Guard/Rescue etc.
Walrus hits the nail on the head.

So why not.

As for how to deal with those who say, no I won't and you can't make me. Superb. Its a life of crime for you then. Which supported by a good criminal justice system will see you in Prison for decent sentences. Not to mention The loss of most of your rights and benefits. The key one being Right to free legal aid in court!
 
#13
walrus said:
1). HM Government to form a 'paramilitary' Civil Defence organisation including a comprehensive Basic Training course, based on that provided for the conscripts of the 1950, without the overtly 'military' aspect (no weapons training, field-craft etc) but with an addition of First Aid, Hygene, and, where required remedial education in literacy and basic maths.

2). HM Govt. to introduce Universal National Service for all persons on age 18 (or later following the late entry rules introduced for National Service, when NS last introduced). Those registered as 'Disabled" will also be required to serve in a restricted capacity (within fields allowing for their disabilities).

3). All conscripts to be paid at the rate of full unemployment benefit (all found)

4). Service shall be for two years, extendable by up to six months in the case of emergency, and will be enforced by law.

5). Those conscripts wishing to volunteer for HM Forces or for certain civilian services* will, on passing the required physical, mental and intellegence tests will be allowed to contract for service at full service pay and priveledges as regular members - those failing their service training, dismissed from service for other than medical reasons within the first three years of service will be returned to complete a full term of National Service (to stop the Forces being used as a 'cop out').
Those already serving in the above at the time of conscription shall be exept from service unless they leave service with the time scale of their conscription (see above).

6). Those conscripts bringing professional skills into the organisation (Medicine & Nursing, Dentisry, Civil Engineering, Languages, Catering etc.) will be empolyed within their respective fields (sorry, no jobs for 'Media Studies' grads, they go back into the labour pool).

7). All conscripts to be trained in First Aid and elementary Field Medicine and in record keeping.

6). The CD conscipts to be employed in a wide range of work from 'Urban Renewal' (clearing up vandalised surfaces and the like), through Forestry, Hospital cleaning, Caring for the Elderly and Nursing. In addition groups will be trained in Heavy and Light Rescue and engineering, and may be employed both at home and abroad in case of Natural disasters or in 'humanitarian' wotk (Medical service or bringing clean water supplies to villages in friendly 'third world'countries
The postings to be decided by compatability with the task and with disciplinary record, attitude etc.

9). All traing shall be undertaken to a nationally recognised standard and will lead to recognised qualifications, any 'work experience' gained shall be taken as valid for further employment.

10). A good record on completion of service shall result in negation of fees for all (or a proportion) of fees for any further education undertaken within the following three years (this shall also be extended to all Servicemen).

11). Any conscript with a good dicharge and desirable qualifications may be elegable for full time re-employment as instructors at similar rates and conditions as the services.

12). All service shall be pensionable under Civil Service rules

13). A voluntary CD corps shall be raised to support the work of the conscript service, in the manner of the TA.


Just an idea.

W


* Fire Service, Police, Ambulance, Coast Guard/Rescue etc.

SECONDED :salut:
 
#14
Frighteningly similar to the ReichsArbeitenDeinst of National Socialist Germany.

Tell me. If the 18 year olds decide not to opt in to your version of RAD but decide to work instead - are you going to prevent them? What will happen to the middle class and upper class kids who don't want to get their hands dirty? The nazis locked them up - will you?

Who is going to train the youth, where is the money going to come from, where are you going to get the land to run the training programmes?

What will it acheive except to have very fit young people?
 
#15
No i would be very happy for them to enter gainfull employment it's just a scheme to stop the feckless wasters who sit around all day complaining about everything and having no money but turn down a job because " i aint flippin burgers cos' im better than that " and other such attitudes.
 
#16
walrus said:
1). HM Government to form a 'paramilitary' Civil Defence organisation including a comprehensive Basic Training course, based on that provided for the conscripts of the 1950, without the overtly 'military' aspect (no weapons training, field-craft etc) but with an addition of First Aid, Hygene, and, where required remedial education in literacy and basic maths.
What we need is a system where a school leaver has three options

1. Continue with full time education

2. A definite full time job - evidence required.

Should this job somehow end then the individual has a period of 6 months benefit during which time they can look for another job. After 6 months they have option 1 or 3

3. A term of two years in the Labour Corps - Training exactly the same as army basic but a non combat role. Posted to stores depots etc.


That would ensure that the individual realises what soldiers endure and it may prompt some of them to actually join for real - which would only be a paperwork matter - having already completed the training
 
#17
ark-angel said:
No i would be very happy for them to enter gainfull employment it's just a scheme to stop the feckless wasters who sit around all day complaining about everything and having no money but turn down a job because " i aint flippin burgers cos' im better than that " and other such attitudes.
Agreed. Plus the Money we currently spank away on Benefits Plus what we give in overseas aid to countries who either don't need it or spunk the money away on arms would cover a sizeable amount of the cost.

The rest would come from sacking the useless government get back to work schemes/youth offender shemes/and the way things are going Fuel tax :D

It is do-able and its do-able well I think.

The difference between us and the Nazi's is we don't have a side aim to create the master race... Just a country of people willing to earn a living and with a bit more respect for other people.

We also have no plans of invading Europe and Eliminating 6 Million Ethnic Minorities.

We're not forcing them to do it. They just won't get the reward if they don't.

If they want to go find work then best of luck (Our qualified ex National Service types will be snapping up them jobs, due to qualifications and experience)

If they want to turn to crime... Best of luck to them. Between our improved Criminal justice system (More heavy handed) and a public that now see chavy criminals for what they are they'll soon find themselves in Prison.

If they're a bit posh and don't want to muck in. Either get Daddy to fund you, find something within the NS that suits you or enter the real world for a few years and get on with it.
 
#18
You’ve not been keeping up to date.

Shortly the school leaving age is to rise to 19. How they are going to accommodate them (class room) or train them (teacher numbers) has not been stated yet. It is a sort of national service by the back door. At the moment if little Johnny does not want to stay in college you can tell him not to turn up on Monday and you remove the unruly ones for the class. I notice you have not included the females we must have equality.
 
#19
So its for the working classes since Daddy isn't going to let his kids suffer this indignity.

And you didn't answer the other questions - where is the personnel, the land and the funding going to come from.
 
#20
its like anything the present govt does half baked idea put ot the public to sort out but i think this has wings.
obviously the working classes will take the biggest hit they are the majority but as i pointed out if you get a job then you may avoid all the above working class working what is better than that, if little Rupert doesn't get a job and start paying into the country then he's in for a bloody shock one morning when jeeves brings him his plain brown envelope telling him where to report.
 

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