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National Service

J

Jake01

Guest
#1
Did it work, could it work again?

Whenever there is an outbreak of local disorder there's always the cry"Bring back National Service" ......

Would the Armed Services want it?

If so, in what form - what would work? ....
 
#2
Funnily enough, just had this conversation at a party last week.

The fabric of society has changed to such an extent that faced with the first day 70% of recruits would burst into tears, throw tantrums, call their social workers or start slitting their wrists. Massive lawsuits, funded by the taxpayer, would then ensue. To make national service acceptable to the 'liberals' of this country discipline would be diluted to such an extent as to render the whole system unworkable.

Somehow I can't imagine Tony and Cherie wanting little Leo mixing with the common scum. Expect graduates etc to be exempt. In addition jobs are not so easy to come by as in the 50s. Would it be fair to prevent kids who have jobs lined up on leaving school from taking them, purely to pi55 them about for a couple of years?

That leaves us with National Service for the unemployable. Do we really think it's a good idea to take feral yoofs from our sink estates, get them fit and give them mil skills? Would we not be better just force feeding them pies for a couple of years, thereby giving our heavily equipped and armoured PCs a chance to actually catch them up whilst running through the shopping centre.

Would you really want some of these tossers in your unit? Recruitings bad enough without the Army being seen as a dumping ground for ne'er do wells. (Apologies to 1 KINGS).

Good idea in principle. Probably better if some scheme was imposed at a much younger age, when you still have a chance of influencing someones outlook in life. Although sneered at today, things like the Cubs, Scouts, ACF etc probably contibuted massively to preventing many kids from going off the rails. Sadly by the time some kids hit 17/18 they are hardened criminals, and no amount of shouting/square bashing will ever change that.
 
#4
The ACF do some fantastic work with those most at risk. Sadly it has some real spods in charge at times, but the majority of the ACF staff are hard working and never get the credit they deserve for the job they do. Sadly for them many of the sink schools are run by the type of liberals that decry the ACF, see it as the Hitler Yoof and don't assist in any way, and those that suffer most are the kids that need the ACF/Cadets most to put a bit of inspiration back in their lives. Think of it this way, many of the kids from single parent families only have mothers to look up to. The strongest male role models many of them have are drug dealers and gang members on their estate. All it takes is 1 strong SSM and many of these lads have someone to look up to to show them there is another way to earn "respect" than to deal drugs and push girls around and get them pregnant. I know a lot of these guys come in for some stick in army circles (some justifiably), but there are so many people out there involved in things like the ACF that do a job much harder than most people can imagine and get results that most could not achieve.

That being said, I don't think National Service could work in this day and age because there just isn't the need for it or the respect for the services that there once was. Even if young people could opt for community service most would try and get out of it, so why waste the resources?
 
#5
All we need is another smallish crisis and they may have no choice BUT national service.

Iraq/Afghanistan/Bosnia/Kosovo/Flaklands...even Ireland, whats the alternative if another crops up? Not enough weekend warriors to go round, and the reservists, like me, can't be taken out of their jobs and businesses en masse.
 
J

Jake01

Guest
#6
An analysis of crime rates around garrison towns V non average size towns shows that (you will hate this) most locked up are squaddies.............. so the argument about discipline and stuff........
 
J

Jake01

Guest
#7
I want an orderly society, respect for our elders, respect for colour,gay relationships... tolerance, a mark of a progressive society.............
 
#8
Jake, it would be interesting where your sweeping statement comes from.

Those that are banged away. Is it for drug pushing, burglary, mugging, wife beating, weapons offences, TWOCing, rape, robbery, shoplifting, vandalism or just a bit of a ruck on a friday night?

What point are you trying to make regarding discipline?
 
#9
Jake01 said:
Did it work, could it work again?

Whenever there is an outbreak of local disorder there's always the cry"Bring back National Service" ......

Would the Armed Services want it?

If so, in what form - what would work? ....
Haven't read the rest of the replies so forgive me if I am repeating.

National Service - Please, noooo, never ever.

The British Army is formed on the basis of being a professional volunteer army, even for the RLC.

National Service would either end up with a diminished Army or a 2 tier service, with volunteers being distinctly separated from "National Service" Walla’s.

I don't care what the do gooders think that it will solve, it would be the worst thing that had ever happened to the armed forces since peace time conscription ended.

If you want them to do a term of "national service", make it as community workers such as litter pickers, park fixers, council workers etc but NOT the service that I volunteered for and that I am proud to cherish the (rose coloured) memory of.

I mean, fcuk me, I even respect the RAVC more than civvies, where would I be if every tosser and his dog could say “I used to be in the Army” just because it was compulsory?

Being a Soldier means something. It might sound abso fcuking lutley cheesy but trust me, once you are out and are no longer worrying about who will get dicked for Friday night in the big house or being fcuked off that you have a CFT tomorrow, it is a thing to look back on with pride, and you do feel it.

If you’re still in and thinking, as I did, that the life is just the life, wait until the first Remembrance Day after you have left and tip up at the local RBL wearing the tin that you have earned. The old boys that have earned more real medals than a yank actor on an extended hollywood movie script will put you in the same league as them. It all gets put into perspective at that point and you begin to realise what the pride and privilege of being a volunteer in this mans Army is all about.

Fcuk what “they” might say, we are better than “they” are because we had the courage of our convictions to voluntarily sign on the dotted line. Even the cnuts that didn’t like it and PVR’d after 3 are still one step above, at least they bothered to find out.

Wartime – yep when it’s needed.

Peacetime – Fcuk off, only people with the conviction to walk into the recruiting office need apply.
 
#11
Nice to see that the same discussion in SPAMland is being discussed here. Mandatory/Compulsory service doesn't work, will never work not in peacetime and not in war time. The pride, honor and the courage to serve ones country does not just occur, it is born. The days of throwing hundreds of thousands of men toward the enemy are over. Todays soldiers must be dedicated and desirous to serve.

Could you imagine a bunch of pissed of conscripts on peacekeeping duty in a dirt hole fcuk nob of a place, not wanting to be there and being forced, to do a job they despise...that is a receipe for disaster.

That's just for starters, they would impact unit cohesion and moral. Or as stated earlier, need to be segragated from those serving honorably, to wallow in their own self pity and hatred of the State remaining an effective force of canon fodder at best.

A professional military is the best military.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#12
ITV did that series who's name I can't remember and it showed the calibre of the youth of today (though I recognise they were still volunteers). The difference is however perhaps not so marked as 50 years ago as you might think according to some of the interviews with old soldiers also screened.
 
J

Jake01

Guest
#13
Mr Happy said:
ITV did that series who's name I can't remember and it showed the calibre of the youth of today (though I recognise they were still volunteers). The difference is however perhaps not so marked as 50 years ago as you might think according to some of the interviews with old soldiers also screened.
It was "lads Army"
 
#15
#16
the ACF is good for recruiting into the army without a doubt. the numbers iv seen going in in the last 2 years have shot up.

we in the ACF see it like this, the ACF is the to recruit all the squaddies that will go on to be NCO's and SNCO's, whilst the CCF at private schools is there to recruit the ruperts.

i think the army would get alot more recruits from the ACF if more was dne with us. coming down the unit once in a blue moon to try and pursuade the cadets infantry is best of sigs is best dont really work. the audiance is there they have to put on the show and do things taht cadets would enjoy. and its the 14/15 year olds that need to be caught and shown what its about. i was thinking of going in but by the time i reached the end of school at 16 i decided to be a plumber.

on topic national service was a great idea and if it would work, crack on, but i dont think it will so it ain't ever going to happen. look to denmark and their system of conscription.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#17
The army should not be used as societies tool for rehabilitating wayward youths or giving people what they lack in the way of discipline.
National Service wouldn't work now.
Youngsters are going to be liabilities if they are forced into something they don't broadly want to be involved with.
 

X-Inf

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#18
Yes there should be National Service for our yoof. They should serve in the French, Italian, Belgian(if they have an army) armies etc. Leaving the Brit professional to do what he does best - Moan but get on with the job. :twisted:
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#19
75%, or so I am told.. of Navy recruiting comes from Sea Scouts and about 10% from the RNR. Something the RN is not blind about through their sponsership etc.

Though quite what a days bobbing about on a resevoir in a dingy has to do with spending your life on a big boat, painting it grey, in a force 9, whilst getting buggered by the captain has to do with scouting I don't know....
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#20
X-Inf said:
Yes there should be National Service for our yoof. They should serve in the French, Italian, Belgian(if they have an army) armies etc. Leaving the Brit professional to do what he does best - Moan but get on with the job. :twisted:
The Belgie Para's are quite respected. Well, by me anyway. Lots of Africa experience and sod all support type thing.
 

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