National Service

At that time we had to import workers, we no longer need to import workers, we have enough unemployment to share about. The Govt took that same amount out of the job market by making them stay in school until they are 18, why would two more years be difficult?
Besides 1.5 million is a ridiculous figure, using my plan less than 1/4 of a million would be in armed service and half of those going on to a full time/part time contract. There would be plenty of employment for retiring soldiers to act as trainers in all of these establishments, eventually it becomes a self licking lollypop providing trained reserves and regular troops for the future.
Those unwilling or unsuitable for military service could be used in community projects, they would be trained in basic handy man type skills for a few weeks and then work from home attending as required any schemes such as required, it only takes imagination not naysayers to make it work!

A functioning capitalist economy needs a finite amount of insitutional unemployment and a labour shortage.
Genuine full employment only exists in socialist states, and it fosters low growth, low investment and stagnant productivity. The highly unionised de facto jobs for life of nationalised industries who’s main purpose was to soak up labour in often non jobs in the 50’s and 60’s are what happens.
Drawing the surplus out of the labour market is a very bad idea.
 
A functioning capitalist economy needs a finite amount of insitutional unemployment and a labour shortage.
Genuine full employment only exists in socialist states, and it fosters low growth, low investment and stagnant productivity. The highly unionised de facto jobs for life of nationalised industries who’s main purpose was to soak up labour in often non jobs in the 50’s and 60’s are what happens.
Drawing the surplus out of the labour market is a very bad idea.
I think the point to take away from the overall NEET figure is that a proportion of that group stays there permanently ie. they are not, and never will be, in the labour market. How large a proportion? Dunno, but those might be helped by a form of civil-programme, even though none has helped much so far.

For decades I have lived, and worked, abroad (mostly in NL) and when I return to UK for family visits my overwhelming impression is of decay, hopelessness and regression. There is no budget available for improvement of anything, or even for maintenance in many areas of society. If no politician is able to cope with the problem of NEETs together with the rest of the nation, then it doesn't say much for the way ahead for UK and it's inhabitants (I don't say citizens, as that implies an acceptance of duties as well as benefits [not directed at most people here, rather at the majority]}.
 
I think the point to take away from the overall NEET figure is that a proportion of that group stays there permanently ie. they are not, and never will be, in the labour market. How large a proportion? Dunno, but those might be helped by a form of civil-programme, even though none has helped much so far.

For decades I have lived, and worked, abroad (mostly in NL) and when I return to UK for family visits my overwhelming impression is of decay, hopelessness and regression. There is no budget available for improvement of anything, or even for maintenance in many areas of society. If no politician is able to cope with the problem of NEETs together with the rest of the nation, then it doesn't say much for the way ahead for UK and it's inhabitants (I don't say citizens, as that implies an acceptance of duties as well as benefits [not directed at most people here, rather at the majority]}.

Rome had its NEETs too, it’s a complaint as old as civilisation.
As soon as you remove your own personal efforts as the driver for survival, there will always be people happy to sit on their derrière and live off the State.
The Roman solution? Pannae et circinus- bread and circuses, a welfare state to buy them off as we know it.
 
The community - your street, area, town, county, country

Wider society



?
Yes in principle, if we all shared that. Local TA CCF for me is Anglican’s. Locally at GY is RNVR , Fairly strong legion. I’d be pushed to say more than 10% local support and in the event that’s strong. But county, country’s?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
A functioning capitalist economy needs a finite amount of insitutional unemployment and a labour shortage.
Genuine full employment only exists in socialist states, and it fosters low growth, low investment and stagnant productivity. The highly unionised de facto jobs for life of nationalised industries who’s main purpose was to soak up labour in often non jobs in the 50’s and 60’s are what happens.
Drawing the surplus out of the labour market is a very bad idea.
Agreed but you aren't drawing out the surplus anymore than the govt has by raising school leaving age. In fact to ensure this didn't happen you could recruit at 17 offering a year in uniform with FE funded by reserve commitment and n loss of grades by taking the enlistment. After all its what the US forces do, offer a massive thank you in the form of picking up your tab for higher education.
The bill could be partly offset by binning tax credits, a scam if ever and also forcing agricultural seasonal labour into using some of these social misfits. Pay them for fruit picking, they may even like it, offer them a further six months employment in a national scheme and they have a years employment history. In fact it may persuade some potential university candidates to rethink course choice.
We could end up by pushing better more useful degrees to students, ones that involve science and engineering through their service.
 
Rome had its NEETs too, it’s a complaint as old as civilisation.
As soon as you remove your own personal efforts as the driver for survival, there will always be people happy to sit on their derrière and live off the State.
The Roman solution? Pannae et circinus- bread and circuses, a welfare state to buy them off as we know it.
Maybe it shouldn't be forgotten that many NEETs are not relying on the State, but on things like family. Which I think is one reason why it's a hard thing to fix, because they may for all intents and purposes then be invisible.
 
Agreed but you aren't drawing out the surplus anymore than the govt has by raising school leaving age. In fact to ensure this didn't happen you could recruit at 17 offering a year in uniform with FE funded by reserve commitment and n loss of grades by taking the enlistment. After all its what the US forces do, offer a massive thank you in the form of picking up your tab for higher education.
The bill could be partly offset by binning tax credits, a scam if ever and also forcing agricultural seasonal labour into using some of these social misfits. Pay them for fruit picking, they may even like it, offer them a further six months employment in a national scheme and they have a years employment history. In fact it may persuade some potential university candidates to rethink course choice.
We could end up by pushing better more useful degrees to students, ones that involve science and engineering through their service.
College in uniform sounds fine in principle, and it works well in 'Murica, but America is not the UK

Americans are geared up culturally to service in uniform, even their Store cops dress like Kevlar Kommandos, but we don't.

Americans are wedded to the concept pf the 'citizen soldier', military service is held in high regard as an absolute good. Their Creation Myth centres around the Minuteman, the Milita man ready at a minutes notice to take up arms. Britain? Not so much, the British don't like Armies, and only serve voluntarily en masse when there is an existential threat - Shakespeare summed it up nicely, 'We are but warriors for the working day'.

You can already get your Degree by joining up, and they are not beating down the doors.
 
Yes in principle, if we all shared that. Local TA CCF for me is Anglican’s. Locally at GY is RNVR , Fairly strong legion. I’d be pushed to say more than 10% local support and in the event that’s strong. But county, country’s?
Again that military

National service is more to do with civic/civil society & community
 
College in uniform sounds fine in principle, and it works well in 'Murica, but America is not the UK

Americans are geared up culturally to service in uniform, even their Store cops dress like Kevlar Kommandos, but we don't.

Americans are wedded to the concept pf the 'citizen soldier', military service is held in high regard as an absolute good. Their Creation Myth centres around the Minuteman, the Milita man ready at a minutes notice to take up arms. Britain? Not so much, the British don't like Armies, and only serve voluntarily en masse when there is an existential threat - Shakespeare summed it up nicely, 'We are but warriors for the working day'.

You can already get your Degree by joining up, and they are not beating down the doors.
So why do regiments, CCF etc exist
 
A functioning capitalist economy needs a finite amount of insitutional unemployment and a labour shortage.
Genuine full employment only exists in socialist states, and it fosters low growth, low investment and stagnant productivity. The highly unionised de facto jobs for life of nationalised industries who’s main purpose was to soak up labour in often non jobs in the 50’s and 60’s are what happens.
Drawing the surplus out of the labour market is a very bad idea.

Nah, you don't get off the hook and join the World of the thinking by the cut and paste quoting of some Wealth of Nations BS that is the best part of 250 years old so now almost irrelevant , especially as in earlier posts you spoke of school leavers being hoovered up by employers thus leaving no one to actually become part of any NS community ..... make your mind up Trigg, have we got too many NEETs or not enough?

I told you already, there's someone here that can spot a bluffer in seconds.
 
College in uniform sounds fine in principle, and it works well in 'Murica, but America is not the UK

Americans are geared up culturally to service in uniform, even their Store cops dress like Kevlar Kommandos, but we don't.

Americans are wedded to the concept pf the 'citizen soldier', military service is held in high regard as an absolute good. Their Creation Myth centres around the Minuteman, the Milita man ready at a minutes notice to take up arms. Britain? Not so much, the British don't like Armies, and only serve voluntarily en masse when there is an existential threat - Shakespeare summed it up nicely, 'We are but warriors for the working day'.

You can already get your Degree by joining up, and they are not beating down the doors.

As she said earlier in another post full of life and optimism that shows the thoughts of an eternal pessimist ....

So what’s the point of a non military compulsory service when we have a perfectly good economy that hoovers up the school levers into employment.

What’s the cunning plan to replace the workers now no longer entering the employment chain?
Import more Polish?
 
Maybe it shouldn't be forgotten that many NEETs are not relying on the State, but on things like family. Which I think is one reason why it's a hard thing to fix, because they may for all intents and purposes then be invisible.

Not really, they'd be forced to sign on by their family just for their NI Stamp and miserly benefits , unless the family were that wealthy - and weak, that they could afford to watch their offspring vegetate into a worthless waste of space not on any form of register
 

Baglock

On ROPS
On ROPs
Valid Points.. Hmm?

1. Why haven't you answered the simple questions about what you think that we should do about NEETs?

2. You still haven't accepted that NS does not have to mean Military or similar training for war.

3. You have offered no real argument to an alternative to any form of NS only some weak,and feeble atempt of trying to compare it to the YTS , which doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

4. Your latest reply shows that you're struggling to explain of show any acceptable logic to your previous replies so use word like 'Rambling' to cover your lack of thought or intelligence.



You're female aren't you?
He's better known as @meerkatz
 
Leave the forces, services, civil service, NHS etc.. voluntary but make previous service mandatory if you want to vote.

It stops the total nuggets voting and those that do earn their vote will (mostly) bother their arse to get down the polls.

I'm doing my part!
 
Leave the forces, services, civil service, NHS etc.. voluntary but make previous service mandatory if you want to vote.

It stops the total nuggets voting and those that do earn their vote will (mostly) bother their arse to get down the polls.

I'm doing my part!
Robert Heinlein walt.
 
So why do regiments, CCF etc exist
CCFs are a very minor part of educational life. They had a cadet unit at my secondary school, studiously ignored by 99.9% of the inmates. If someone had suggested we were all going to be forced to join a big boys version when we left school, you would not have got many willing participants.
 
Nah, you don't get off the hook and join the World of the thinking by the cut and paste quoting of some Wealth of Nations BS that is the best part of 250 years old so now almost irrelevant , especially as in earlier posts you spoke of school leavers being hoovered up by employers thus leaving no one to actually become part of any NS community ..... make your mind up Trigg, have we got too many NEETs or not enough?

I told you already, there's someone here that can spot a bluffer in seconds.

Can I have that in English, not Drunkish?
 
A functioning capitalist economy needs a finite amount of insitutional unemployment and a labour shortage.
Genuine full employment only exists in socialist states, and it fosters low growth, low investment and stagnant productivity. The highly unionised de facto jobs for life of nationalised industries who’s main purpose was to soak up labour in often non jobs in the 50’s and 60’s are what happens.
Drawing the surplus out of the labour market is a very bad idea.
Not exactly,

True for some capitalist enterprises, but all societies have a finite labour pool to at least feed and house, working or not. We still have plenty of nationalised "industries", such as healthcare, education and the military.

Also, the NCB's problem was that its productivity was anything but stagnant as I remember. That and an unwillingness to pay market wages.

I can't think of a single industry that wasn't nationalised because the private sector had already failed in running it.
 

W21A

War Hero
Book Reviewer
There is already a voluntary NS called the ACF/CCF. (Other youth groups are available.) When they leave, especially at 16 plus, they generally have a sense of social commitment. Encouraging them to join a CD corps for emergencies/disasters would play to that sense. A regional training centre in CD equipment, perhaps with contracts with companies who already have have and train on that equipment, would end up with them having tickets in various skills like various plant, trucks, boats, etc, and also management tickets in how to use these assets in disaster/CD relief. They get trained, the country has a CD reserve, people are encouraged to do more for their community because they get training out of it. There will of course be an admin and infrastructure requirement.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top