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National Service

That, I think is the nub of the argument. A sense of who's community? See you either want to be part of what you consider to be your community- in which case you'd be like us and join up. But the PC classes keep telling us they don't want to be us. We are the oddity here and there's little point in a NS ethos, if we don't know what that should be, but I do think that the current climate does not favour males, because as a rule they are denigrated.
The community - your street, area, town, county, country

Wider society


So what’s the point of a non military compulsory service when we have a perfectly good economy that hoovers up the school levers into employment.?
Who says it has to be full time?
 
Could you give some examples?
To me it should be voluntary Type work

Think Duke of Edinburgh Award the aim being to get young people in the 14 to maybe 21 year old age bracket where they are making life choices and you need to be kept on the straight and narrow and find their place in society.

Working with the homeless, elderly, Red Cross
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
So what’s the point of a non military compulsory service when we have a perfectly good economy that hoovers up the school levers into employment.

What’s the cunning plan to replace the workers now no longer entering the employment chain?
Import more Polish?
Ok lets surmise that 1/2 a million kids leave school at 18. For the next 12 months unless they have been offered a special place at a university some form of service to the state would be useful. I believe that if offered about 200 000 would take one year in uniform with ten years reserve commitment to follow especially if student tuition fees were met by this service. Of those maybe 80 000 would be interested in a trade training and employment for 3 years with a reserve commitment in trades of use to the armed forces but not seen as great careers but useful outside, butchery, mechanics, catering etc.
the 300 000 that dont volunteer could be used on rotation through various trusts and national authorities to help improve the country. They wouldn't need to be used for the whole year but could be called out if needed, snow clearing etc. A trained and disciplined group who could help respond to national emergencies in a form of civil defense corps perhaps.
Those CD volunteers too would be offered assistance with grants towards higher education and still have some for of call out for national emergencies.
Everything is possible, you would need better carrots than sticks and a political leadership with cohones!
 
Ok lets surmise that 1/2 a million kids leave school at 18. For the next 12 months unless they have been offered a special place at a university some form of service to the state would be useful. I believe that if offered about 200 000 would take one year in uniform with ten years reserve commitment to follow especially if student tuition fees were met by this service. Of those maybe 80 000 would be interested in a trade training and employment for 3 years with a reserve commitment in trades of use to the armed forces but not seen as great careers but useful outside, butchery, mechanics, catering etc.
the 300 000 that dont volunteer could be used on rotation through various trusts and national authorities to help improve the country. They wouldn't need to be used for the whole year but could be called out if needed, snow clearing etc. A trained and disciplined group who could help respond to national emergencies in a form of civil defense corps perhaps.
Those CD volunteers too would be offered assistance with grants towards higher education and still have some for of call out for national emergencies.
Everything is possible, you would need better carrots than sticks and a political leadership with cohones!

One word......

CAPITA
 

.... would find itself way out of its depth, totally unable to cope. Its present form does not inspire confidence, I assume that the bean counters in Whitehall are aware of this. If and its a big if, NS is ever implemented, in any form, Crapita has no involvement at all, in any shape or form..... NS & Crapita,........ a match made in Broadmoor.
 
So what’s the point of a non military compulsory service when we have a perfectly good economy that hoovers up the school levers into employment.

What’s the cunning plan to replace the workers now no longer entering the employment chain?
Import more Polish?

Yet more sneery, ill informed answers ...it's as if there are no NEETs in your tunnel visioned world.

Only 808, 000 of the feckers ....

Young people not in education, employment or training (NEET), UK - Office for National Statistics
 
Yet more sneery, ill informed answers ...it's as if there are no NEETs in your tunnel visioned world.

Only 808, 000 of the feckers ....

Young people not in education, employment or training (NEET), UK - Office for National Statistics

So genius, how do you manage, train and motivate your magical 800,000 person lads and laddettes army?
Tent cities and ex army BOFs shouting at them?

You really aren’t thinking this through, nor do you seem to have any experience of modern 18 year olds.
Do as I say, respect mah authoritah! Doesn’t work with them.
 
.... would find itself way out of its depth, totally unable to cope. Its present form does not inspire confidence, I assume that the bean counters in Whitehall are aware of this. If and its a big if, NS is ever implemented, in any form, Crapita has no involvement at all, in any shape or form..... NS & Crapita,........ a match made in Broadmoor.
Which is why all these stupid NS ideas dreamed up by old farts end in bitter tears of reality bites.
We have no mechanism in this country bar introducing de facto going on a war footing to round up and force 1,400,000 seriously not interested 18 year olds into a national anything.
 
Yes, because beasting and treating people like crap has proven to be such an effective training method. Congratulations, you’ve now got a 100% resentful group of people.
I'm guessing you're not arduous qualified.
 
Which is why all these stupid NS ideas dreamed up by old farts end in bitter tears of reality bites.
We have no mechanism in this country bar introducing de facto going on a war footing to round up and force 1,400,000 seriously not interested 18 year olds into a national anything.

......may I refer you to post #105......
 
So genius, how do you manage, train and motivate your magical 800,000 person lads and laddettes army?
Tent cities and ex army BOFs shouting at them?

You really aren’t thinking this through, nor do you seem to have any experience of modern 18 year olds.
Do as I say, respect mah authoritah! Doesn’t work with them.

Well Trig, no one said that you had to include all of them, just offer incentives to those that give it a go or bin all benefits for those they play the cnut ......still a better answer than your one - post 141 , where according to you, they all magically get hoovered up by employers so we'll need to import more Poles.

Seems like these 808, 000 NEETs didn't even get a suck let alone hoover eh?

You're fecking mince aint ya?......

As for experience of modern 18 years olds, all i know is that you only get away with others or the system lets you.

Looks like my assessment of your dour, unimaginative ,aspie like character was uncannily accurate Trig?
 
Ever tried bulling with Cherry Blossom? Pushing water uphill comes to mind.
This heresy on the part of the previous poster must be forgiven as he was an ED.

This interesting, and even sometimes useful, sub-species, viewed in its natural habitat was most easily distinguished from its fellows by the fact that the beret at one end was far more shiny than the boots at the other. This interesting phenomenon can most easily be explained by the differing effects of liberally applying varied items of POL to wool on the one hand and leather on the other.

Hope this helps.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
One word......

CAPITA
Indeed, it would require some thinking and talent to deliver, bearing in mind its not as if we have the infrastructure available to us in 1945 or the huge army to bribe into staying on after a war to train the next generation.
 
Well Trig, no one said that you had to include all of them, just offer incentives to those that give it a go or bin all benefits for those they play the cnut ......still a better answer than your one - post 141 , where according to you, they all magically get hoovered up by employers so we'll need to import more Poles.

Seems like these 808, 000 NEETs didn't even get a suck let alone hoover eh?

You're fecking mince aint ya?......

As for experience of modern 18 years olds, all i know is that you only get away with others or the system lets you.

Looks like my assessment of your dour, unimaginative ,aspie like character was uncannily accurate Trig?

So your abstract rantings have nothing to do with the OP’s post about national service
Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Indeed, it would require some thinking and talent to deliver, bearing in mind its not as if we have the infrastructure available to us in 1945 or the huge army to bribe into staying on after a war to train the next generation.
One of the main things that did for national service was the economic disruption of removing large numbers of new workers from what was then a relatively low skill, low wage economy with a labour shortage.
Even if we can magic up the means and the infrastructure to coral 1.5 million for two years at a time and use them as no skill, high pay non workers, the impact on a high skill, high salary economy with an labour shortage would be ‘interesting’.
 
So your abstract rantings have nothing to do with the OP’s post about national service
Thanks for clearing that up.

Er, Trig, I'll think your find that the OPs original intent was to discuss it but not necessarily, or purely, from a military point of view and just used some fairly basic examples and myths to illustrate his point.

The thread then evolved into other aspects of a national service type role for young people... ..hmm?...maybe like those 808,000 NEETs that didn't get hoovered up as you seem to insist on happend?

But, it's pretty clear to me and others that you're out of your depth with any form of reasoned debate as all your posts on this thread have shown an utter lack of enthusiasm or intelligence ...along with your cynical, dour, moronic personality.

What you have to remember is that many on here are very knowledgeable in their own fields and expertise , some are just argumentative trolls , ready to take the pi55 out of feckwitts at every oppurtinity ,but even so, they have put up much better posts than you have.

Now about these 808,000 NEETs?... you never did explain what your solution to the problem would be? ...or how other soon to be NEETs could be persuaded to do something that benefits the community in general or the UK as a whole?.... i suppose that is waaaaay too 'Abstract' for you to cope with, especially as it's not in your nature to think of anything constructive/Brave/or that requires some effort.

You're a dull, terminally boring, slow to grasp the facts, stuck in the mud, sour faced aspie.... but thank you for making me look enlightened.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
One of the main things that did for national service was the economic disruption of removing large numbers of new workers from what was then a relatively low skill, low wage economy with a labour shortage.
Even if we can magic up the means and the infrastructure to coral 1.5 million for two years at a time and use them as no skill, high pay non workers, the impact on a high skill, high salary economy with an labour shortage would be ‘interesting’.
At that time we had to import workers, we no longer need to import workers, we have enough unemployment to share about. The Govt took that same amount out of the job market by making them stay in school until they are 18, why would two more years be difficult?
Besides 1.5 million is a ridiculous figure, using my plan less than 1/4 of a million would be in armed service and half of those going on to a full time/part time contract. There would be plenty of employment for retiring soldiers to act as trainers in all of these establishments, eventually it becomes a self licking lollypop providing trained reserves and regular troops for the future.
Those unwilling or unsuitable for military service could be used in community projects, they would be trained in basic handy man type skills for a few weeks and then work from home attending as required any schemes such as required, it only takes imagination not naysayers to make it work!
 

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