National Service

I don't buy any of this community shit to be honest. There never was any in my lifetime and I'm in my fifties.
I don't buy this serving your country stuff either. It's all the stuff of fantasists.. Cue all the 'I joined up to serve my Country'' BS. Walter Mittys who bleat on about the dangers of communism but happy to vent their spleen on great ways to engineer society from the top down. As they see fit of course but usually involving schemes where people work for little or no wages.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
They were as good as nationalised during the wars under the REC and as it had taken tax payers' money to fix 'em up again, some time after the wear 'n tear of the first war it wasn't unreasonable to step in sooner after the second, or nationalise the profits as well as the costs.
I dont disagree but it was the war effort in both wars which broke the railways. They weren't compensated fully or even close to the value they had spent. In both wars.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I went to a grammar school in the 60s which did everything from woodwork to Latin.

It was possible to take a GCE in German and one in metalwork too.
As it was in my 1970's comprehensive. We were streamed so as to ensure the first three years before the exams were undisturbed by problem kids!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I don't buy any of this community shit to be honest. There never was any in my lifetime and I'm in my fifties.
I don't buy this serving your country stuff either. It's all the stuff of fantasists.. Cue all the 'I joined up to serve my Country'' BS. Walter Mittys who bleat on about the dangers of communism but happy to vent their spleen on great ways to engineer society from the top down. As they see fit of course but usually involving schemes where people work for little or no wages.
Its not communist to ensure a reserve of trained people for national emergencies rather than have a nation full of needies.
 
If the Govt hadn't stopped profits by limiting them then the railways would have done exceptionally well from both world wars. Govt interference ruined the railways and still does
so the dastardly government stopped the train companies making excessive profits during the war and that's 'a bad thing' - war or no war the company must screw every last farthing in can out of the country for the benefit of the shareholders and to hell with western civilisation? You are Ayn Rand and I claim my free copy of Bioshock
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
I don't buy any of this community shit to be honest. There never was any in my lifetime and I'm in my fifties.
I don't buy this serving your country stuff either. It's all the stuff of fantasists.. Cue all the 'I joined up to serve my Country'' BS. Walter Mittys who bleat on about the dangers of communism but happy to vent their spleen on great ways to engineer society from the top down. As they see fit of course but usually involving schemes where people work for little or no wages.
All that means to me is that you have obviously not had much of a communal experience during your short lifetime. I can only assume you prefer your own company rather than mixing with society in general. There are many places, both urban and rural, which involve a communal spirit as well as many organisations. However, from the "stuff" you have written there perhaps you see yourself as a true communist.
 
All that means to me is that you have obviously not had much of a communal experience during your short lifetime. I can only assume you prefer your own company rather than mixing with society in general. There are many places, both urban and rural, which involve a communal spirit as well as many organisations. However, from the "stuff" you have written there perhaps you see yourself as a true communist.
No sooner did we form into teams than we were re-organised.
I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet every situation by re-organising and what a wonderful method it is for giving the illusion of progress whilst only producing confusion, inefficiency & demoralisation.
PETRONIUS AD 66
 
Can I have that in English, not Drunkish?

Everyone else seems to be able to comprehend it ..... try opening your mind and to see thing not entirely 100% from your own closed point of view, who knows, you may even smile about a few things and developed some kind of low level humility?

...........or is that asking too much?

Anyhoo, about all these skool leavers who get hoovered up thus leaving nobody to do any form of NS? .. ..less the 808, 000 NEETs already monging it of course.
 
All that means to me is that you have obviously not had much of a communal experience during your short lifetime. I can only assume you prefer your own company rather than mixing with society in general. There are many places, both urban and rural, which involve a communal spirit as well as many organisations. However, from the "stuff" you have written there perhaps you see yourself as a true communist.

I'd say something beginning with 'C' :)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
so the dastardly government stopped the train companies making excessive profits during the war and that's 'a bad thing' - war or no war the company must screw every last farthing in can out of the country for the benefit of the shareholders and to hell with western civilisation? You are Ayn Rand and I claim my free copy of Bioshock
I didn't say that I just said the companies were screwed over by the country
 
I'm not sure you can blame the academics. It was the government who didn't fund setting up the technical schools part of the grammar/technical/secondary modern system due to the expense of setting up the labs and workshops needed
It was County Councils who were supposed to set up that tripartite system, and too many failed to do so. Where I came from there were Grammars, Sec Techs and Sec Mods, not to mention that there was an 11 plus, 12 plus and 13 plus for slightly late developers to swap upwards if necessary.

I dabbled in track cycling as a kid and complained once to a mate in a Sec Tech that it was a pain carrying my track wheels down to the track. (couldn't afford a proper track bike, just the wheels on my road bike, which I rode fixed wheel all the time, just had to swap wheels and remove the brake - seven nuts in all, to use it on the track.

Next time I saw him, at football on a Saturday, he presented me with a system consisting of a couple of brackets to bolt on to my front wheel complete with an oversize spindle and a strap to hold the top ends to the head. All made in half a day having declared it to his metalwork teacher as a project.
 
No sooner did we form into teams than we were re-organised.
I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet every situation by re-organising and what a wonderful method it is for giving the illusion of progress whilst only producing confusion, inefficiency & demoralisation.
PETRONIUS AD 66
Didn't somebody admit to faking the Petronius quote? No matter, it still says they organised collectively despite all the pissing about. Unless there's a second paragraph where he said feck this for a game of soldiers and goes on to conquer Gaul on his Jack Jones.
 
Would any volunteer really want to rely on a member of generation snowflake if the shit hit the fan?
I think the Russian method as seen in the fim Enemy at the Gates, would suffice to keep non snowfake casualties to a minimum. Also orders could be issued via smart phones, with an immediate withdrawal of either internet access or social media as a form of punishment for not carrying out said orders.

 
NS wasn't always a waste of time. On my first grey funnel liner [A WWII battle class destroyer in the Med fleet], we had a conscript on board who was the Coder who after quick trade training was promoted Leading Hand when drafted to the ship. Although young he was highly educated and quite shy. His other job apart from Coder was Schoolie. After 2 years he left the ship for civvy street worldly wise and confident after visiting the fleshpots of the Med and went straight to university which in those days for a working class lad was quite rare. Eventually I was posted to the Army and we still had a couple of NS squaddies in my unit in 1962 and some that had signed on regular after their drafted stint. All good soldiers in a specialist unit.
 
I went to a grammar school in the 60s which did everything from woodwork to Latin.

It was possible to take a GCE in German and one in metalwork too.

Thats coz you was at the clever school. Of course, such schools wanted peoples to excel, who ch explains why the Educational establishment has spent the last 40 years trying to wipe them out.
 
Everyone else seems to be able to comprehend it ..... try opening your mind and to see thing not entirely 100% from your own closed point of view, who knows, you may even smile about a few things and developed some kind of low level humility?

...........or is that asking too much?

Anyhoo, about all these skool leavers who get hoovered up thus leaving nobody to do any form of NS? .. ..less the 808, 000 NEETs already monging it of course.

You have a thing about NEET, is that how you generally drink?
 
As it was in my 1970's comprehensive. We were streamed so as to ensure the first three years before the exams were undisturbed by problem kids!

Comprehensives were better than Secondary Moderns who's who point was to limit academic achievement… You were expected to achieve no better than CSE and the school was geared up to that. What? O levels! OMG! What to do. I did all mine as externals
 
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In this interesting thread, there has been some incredulity expressed at the promotion prospects of many NS men. My wife's eldest brother was commissioned into the RASC, her next brother down was a Sgt in the Lincolns in Malaya and our son in law's Oxford educated father and later a professional footballer was a Sgt in the RAEC. In my old unit we had a NS Sgt who had exactly the same name as a regular Sgt which was rather confusing. The latter was highly respected whereas the former was not; a creeper to say the least.
 
SA conscripts could attain the rank of Cpl or 2nd Lt upon completion of Infantry School or the equivalent for trade arms during the initial two years national service. L/Cpl was awarded to section leaders and the rest of us remained dom troepe.

In later years, as one did one's annual camps and became longer in the tooth, further rank could be gained and many became Sgts and S/Sgts before going on the reserve list. We cannon fodder remained Rfn or the equivalent.
 
I haven't yet read all of the thread but:

As an alternative to Military service, let’s face it, over half of the “modern yoof” that would be eligible for National Service would never be suitable for the military. So, how about an alternative? Instead of Military Service how about community service? It could work by forming “Community Battalions”, these would take ALL school leavers at 18 for 2 years regardless of whether they plan to go further with their education and there would be no medical exceptions. The only exemptions would be if you volunteer for HM Forces, Police, Customs and Border control, Fire and Rescue Service, Ambulance service, Nursing/Doctor* training instead which would all be a minimum of 5 years’ service.

Community Service battalions would form up locally and then move to barracks at the opposite end of the country (or at least 50 miles from the outer border of the county they were raised in) for selection and training, they would then spend their time covering council jobs such as bin emptying, road sweeping, maintenance, graffiti clearing etc… they would learn a trade if they have the aptitude (Plumbing, Building, Maintenance, Civil engineering etc…) and could work up the “rank” structure and stay after their service as trainers or supervisors/managers of the schemes.

Training and promotions would be based on ability rather than “my daddy’s rich so I get a cushy job” or “my daddy’s an MP/Lord lawyer, judge etc…” and all would have to serve their time.

Is this a viable idea?









*Doctor Service would be a minimum of 10 years POST Qualification.
 

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